Christian Nationalism Isn’t An Op (Fade the Butcher hits at anti-Christian Alt Right)

Petr

Administrator

Christian Nationalism Isn’t An Op


July 27, 2022

Hunter Wallace

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I keep hearing this in the comments.

I’ve seen it a bunch of times on social media.

Basically, it is secular or pagan White Nationalists insisting that Christian nationalism is some kind of op to subvert White Nationalism. They don’t understand why we are talking about this.

1. We’re talking about it because the trend is driving the news cycle. I write about the news. If it is news, I have probably heard about it and have an opinion on it.

2. We’re talking about it because people like Doug Mastriano and Michael Peroutka have won several Republican primaries.

3. We’re talking about it because Roe v. Wade was recently struck down.

4. We’re talking about it because the Republican base has become radicalized over the past three or four years and the biggest shift by far has occurred among White evangelical Protestants.

5. Most importantly, we’re talking about it because this is where all the action is these days. This is where we are having success. These are the people who are “waking up,” not Reddit suburban atheists.

4 out of 10 Republican voters are White evangelicals.

8 out of 10 Republican voters are Christians.

The overwhelming majority of nationalists and populists in this country are conservative Christians who tend to live in small towns, rural areas and small metros. Those people are the elephant in American politics. Secular White Nationalists or pagan Nationalists are like the flea on the ass of the elephant. Virtually all self-described atheists and pagans skew toward the Far Left.

See, for example, their views on gender:

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Abortion:

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Homosexuality:

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Casual sex and open relationships:

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Trans:

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In recent years, the elephant in our politics – the White evangelical Protestant base of the GOP – has quietly gotten redpilled on a bunch of issues. These people are telling pollsters under Joe Biden all kinds of things like “journalists” are a bunch of Satan worshipping child molesters or that they would be better off if their state seceded from the Union or that Christians should establish their dominion over our government and culture or that they are armed and ready to fight Civil War 2 or that they are angry about Whites being replaced by non-White immigrants. This is where the GOP base is at these days.

Occasionally, the spotlight shifts back to secular and pagan White Nationalists. This usually happens when someone on 8chan has a meltdown and commits a mass shooting that horrifies the country and spurs calls for gun control or when people with Nazi flags parade around Turning Point USA or when Richard Spencer endorses something like drag queens or another MSNBC talking point in a hot take and it creates a stir in that space that befuddles and amuses outsiders. Some of the people we used to be associated with have gone down the well trod self-marginalizing road of creating their own fake make believe racial religion and walling themselves off from the outside world to ensure their total irrelevance.

I’ve watched the secular Alt-Right space stagnate and decline. I believe it has happened for two reasons. The first is that people who are college educated atheists and pagans – presumably, the target demographic – overwhelmingly skew to the Far Left and so the growth in that swath of the population fuels the Left. Although they are vocal on the internet, the people who identify as atheists and racial nationalists are extreme outliers who have taken an unusual path. The second is that making anti-Christianity such a central part of their message and platform alienates and repulses normies who are otherwise sympathetic to nationalism and share many of the same grievances. Thus, the only people who are still in business and growing are those who for whatever reason (maybe they didn’t read Nietzsche?) are not inclined to do this. The space never recovered from Richard Spencer’s leadership. I’m no fan of Nick Fuentes, but he grasps these dynamics: to grow on the Right, your message has to resonate with Christians.

Once again, Christian nationalism is in the news because White evangelicals have radicalized since the George Floyd riots and because Dump lost the 2020 election and said it was stolen from him and because Joe Biden is pushing them to the Right as Democratic presidents always do. We’re celebrating the development because it is more important to radicalize the elephant in the room – the White evangelical Protestant base of the GOP, which is tens of millions of people who dominate entire states – than to cater to the most absurd ideas of a fringe of anti-Christian White Nationalists with Reddit priors.

Ask yourself … why aren’t we talking about you? Why aren’t you making waves? What happened to the Alt-Right? Maybe it is because it has become much more plausible to imagine Christian normies getting more radical and rightwing than you ever going anywhere and attracting a politically significant following to your laughingstock atheist personality cults like Apolloism? Do you guys get together and reassure yourselves that assuming there are no ops that this is the year that something like Apolloism or Atomwaffen breaks out into the mainstream?

In the real world, the overwhelming majority of people who are pro-White, who are rightwing in their politics, who see themselves as nationalists are Christians. The strength of White racial identity is strongly associated with religiosity to the point where White and Christian are synonymous to millions of normies. This has been true across all of American history. It remains true today. Even the Nazis were Christians. The least religious Whites are far more liberal and antiracist than everyone else. White evangelical Protestants are more rightwing across the board than all other groups. Developments in this world matter a lot more because the Right is so Christian that what happens there shapes the politics of the entire country. We should be engaging with these people and finding common ground with them.

Anyway, it is crystal clear now to all observers – pro-White or anti-White – that the trajectory of White evangelical Protestants, not Trad Caths or Orthobros or the secular Alt-Right or any other extremely online fad, is the thing to watch over the next few years. These people are getting extremely radical in a very short period of time. We need to focus on conducting the revolution in attitudes that is happening there under the surface into something positive. At least that is my belief. These people are persuadable on key issues as their recent interest in secession and the Great Replacement shows.

I’m watching this, laughing at the back and forth, doing a little trolling and cheering it on. I’m enjoying watching one side accuse the other of “Christofascism” which responds and accuses the other side of being a bunch of Satan worshipping pedophiles who are grooming children into homosexuals. I think it makes sense to encourage this polarization and to egg it on and see where it goes. Hopefully, the two sides can be persuaded that they loathe each so much that they should part ways in a peaceful National Divorce.

I hear what you are saying: Christians suck, Christians are dumb and Christianity is a Jewish religion, but Christian nationalism is a gay op to deter Christians from responding to this highly effective pitch you are making that otherwise would be convincing disaffected Christians to flock to your atheist or pagan racial nationalist subculture en masse and join forces with the White shitlibs who are wrecking the country and physically attacking you in the streets to create a White ethnostate. My point is that no one is really listening and that these developments are happening independently in the MAGA space in evangelical churches.

The rising trend of nationalism was different a few years ago. What happened to it? Where did all that energy go? White evangelicals getting more radical under Joe Biden aren’t the reason it all dissipated. It was largely due to one act of self sabotage after another and leaders who weren’t ready for primetime and cracked in front of a national audience.
 

Petr

Administrator
Hunter Wallace
JULY 27, 2022 AT 10:57 PM

Emphasis on former atheist.

In my youth, I wasn’t religious and was alienated from George W. Bush era evangelical Protestantism – the Prosperity Gospel and Christian Zionist types – but my racial and cultural views were typical of my community. I was a strong social conservative on most issues. It was exposure to the atheist community on the Richard Dawkins forum that initially sent me in the opposite direction from those degenerates.

The internet isn’t real life. Over 90% of atheists are liberals or moderates. 10% are conservatives and a tiny fraction of those are racial nationalists. Over 95% of atheists support homosexuality which is a good indicator of the relative size of the far right atheist community
 

Petr

Administrator
Alas, these woes of Rightist neopagans are not a new thing - already the emperor Julian the Apostate, who could be considered as the first important neo-pagan figure, was like "a general without an army" as he desperately tried to organize a new and improved form of paganism that could defeat Christianity.

The 19th century German classical historian and author Felix Dahn - who himself was a strongly Rightist, neo-pagan Völkisch nationalist type - even though greatly admiring Julian, he could not help but to observe:


"(Verblendung aber war es, daß Julian das Volk noch eines römischen Patriotismus für fähig hielt, wie er fast nur noch ihn selbst beseelte. Er stand allein: und tragisch ist sein Werk. D.)
Julian aber ward in dieser Richtung nicht nur durch die dämonische Gewalt persönlicher Leidenschaft, mehr noch durch sein römisch-griechisches Ideal fortgerissen. Reiner und edler als Welteroberung aus Herrschsucht war die Regenerationsidee des römisch-griechischen Altertums: (aber Julian war dabei ein Feldherr ohne Heer. D.)."
 
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Petr

Administrator
But let us give the devil his due; among pagans reactionary sentiments are somewhat stronger than among atheists; after all, the leading Third Reich Nazis were pagans (although the German people who originally voted them to power, to fight the Communists, were largely right-wing Christians).

Idolatry of race can also go easily with pagan mentality (but alas, more pagans like to worship gold rather than blood, and supplicate mammon in the form of capitalist globalism).

Some neopagans have even tried to argue that atheism itself is like a twisted version or negation of Christian worldview (like Satan worship is), since no traditional pagan would have understood modern Western atheism. That is partly true - we can see that in India right-wing pagan tradition still powerfully lives on - but partly not true: in antiquity there already existed the Epicurean school that tried to abolish all fear of gods, and pious ancient heathen could chant "down with Epicureans, down with Christians!" in the same breath.


In terms of the historical development of modern Heathenry in the United States, the racists were here first. Else Christensen’s Odinists were organized and recruiting from prison gangs nearly twenty years before the founding of national-level “universalist” Heathen groups and long before the “inclusive” Heathens began their own prison recruitment programs. The fact that the first great schism in American Heathenry was over overt versus covert racism, between white nationalism and ethnocentrism, and that the two sides have rebranded themselves repeatedly in the decades since (despite overlapping leadership and membership) suggests that the hateful Heathens may indeed be promoting what a relatively large proportion of Heathenry “believes or stands for.”
...
As ever more reports of racist statements made and hate crimes committed by Heathens appear in the media, the “no true Heathen” proclamations seem increasingly limp. In the past, I believed some preliminary research suggesting that white nationalists made up a statistically insignificant minority of American Heathens. I no longer believe that the reported data accurately reflects the reality on the ground, if it ever did, and I now wonder if racist Heathens are actually the majority in the United States.
 

Grug Arius

Phorus Primus
Staff member
If you are looking for the magical formula for restoration of nationalism, faith in a higher power is an essential component.

BUT that is not the reason to have faith, nor does nationalism necessarily follow faith.

True faith is inextricably tied to two things: your spiritual enlightenment, and your soul.

Nationalism is more often than not, an extension of one's ego. Too often it can and does become predatory (as with the evangelicals who supported the warmongering of Bush, for example)

Nationalism is a very tricky concept IMO. I prefer traditionalism to nationalism. But enough about me...
 

Petr

Administrator
It seems to me that those White atheists who care about race are rare, but those rare ones that actually do, can care very much about it, even more than is appropriate (seeing race as the idol god that gives some meaning to their lives) - even to the length of becoming spree shooters in their nihilistic despair. This would explain why "atheist racists" can be so visible in the small and isolated WN scene, and yet so insignificant in the wider mainstream society:



The rise of Christian nationalism has angered the anti-Christian White Nationalists.

They are screaming things like “it’s an op” or “it’s a competing movement.” We’re told that Christianity is a Jewish religion, Christians are stupid and Christianity is holding back the White race. These are all very common beliefs in what I think of as the cul-de-sac of White Nationalism. I also think it says a lot more about their own sense of identity than it does about the beliefs of Christians.

Twenty years ago, I agreed with this line of thinking. Back in 2000s, I thought of myself as an atheist, a White Nationalist, a supporter of eugenics and a fan of Nietzsche. It doesn’t bother me that there are people who think this way. I used to be one of them. Intellectually curious people go through phases in life and have the right to express their opinions, toy around with ideas and think through issues.

For the record, I still share so many views, values and beliefs in common with White Nationalists that I will always be lumped in with them. I don’t mind being labeled a “White Nationalist extremist” by the SPLC. Anyone who wants to know what I really believe can always read this website. I believe that race exists. I believe that race matters. I have always thought of myself as pro-White. I have always rejected antiracism. I’m proud of my ancestors. I don’t have a shred of racial guilt. I genuinely wish all White people saw the world the way that I do, but I recognize that this is not the case and never really has been true. There is nothing at all wrong with White people who prefer to live around other White people and a preference for racial and cultural homogeneity over the Star Wars bar scene. That’s a natural sentiment.

Basically, I was born and raised in the Deep South and retain an appreciation for the old Southern honor culture which has shaped my view of the subject. The Old South was an honor based culture, not a guilt based culture. The idea of groveling and apologizing to others or hating myself for being White is utterly foreign to me. This dislike and total rejection of antiracism, a positive sense of White identity and a loathing of those people who I perceived as insulting and trying to degrade my people is why I got involved in White Nationalism in the first place. At the time, it was the only game in town. It was the only refuge from the hegemonic cult of antiracism. The only people who rejected this were White Nationalists.

I strongly dislike the 20th century and especially the post-World War II era. I believe that millions of White people lost their religion, racial, ethnic and cultural identity in the 20th century. I believe that millions of White people completely rejected Christianity and traditional morality. This opened up a void in the culture and what Christians understood to be sin and the classical virtues and vices was filled by the creation of new made up -isms and -phobias which were hatched in academia and spread through the media. I don’t believe that “racism” or “sexism” or “transphobia,” for example, have anything to do with morality.

I believe that identity is complex. I obviously value my White Southern Christian identity. I think there is merit to small-r states’ rights republicanism. I don’t want to live under a dictatorship or a consolidated government. I don’t ideologically agree with liberalism, but I have a liberal temperament. I enjoy listening to what people with different perspectives have to say. I’m openminded and occasionally conclude that I was wrong and that someone else who I was arguing on some subject or another had a good point. I think it is important to keep an open mind. In the eyes of liberals, these beliefs are sufficiently rightwing to classify me as a “far right white supremacist Neo-Nazi illiberal fascist extremist.”

I’ve learned through bitter experience to be suspicious of movements and branding myself with labels. It is easy to get sucked in and jump on bandwagons that you later come to regret. I can’t control what other people do. I can only control my own actions. That’s why I now identify as just a guy who lives in Alabama and runs a blog which is probably classified as “domestic extremism” or some other such nonsense.

Anyway, the cul-de-sac of White Nationalism is where lots of White people end up who have lost their religion, but who have taken the relatively unusual path of latching on to their racial identity. It is a place where disgruntled atheists collect and rage against Christianity like their far more numerous peers on Reddit, but from a Far Right perspective instead of a Far Left one. They are two sides of the same extreme coin. Some of these people become militant, violent leftwing activists who join Antifa. Some of these people go down the road of Neo-Nazism. They have same views on Christcucks though.

It is a cul-de-sac because the people who come down this pipeline really have nowhere else to go. They can’t relate to the Right, which is overwhelmingly Christian, or the Left, which is overwhelmingly anti-White. In fact, they can’t even relate to the overwhelming majority of White people in their country who share most of their racial, cultural and political views. They lash out at those people and anti-Christianity kind off seals off the cul-de-sac into its own little world where it stagnates. There is no political path forward to anywhere these people want to go that runs through atheism. The spread of atheism only shifts our politics in an anti-White progressive direction. Occasionally, they will break into the news cycle when one of them has one of their perennial meltdowns and commits a mass shooting.

Christian nationalism isn’t a surprising development to anyone who keeps a close eye on the American political landscape. 8 out 10 Republican voters are White Christians.

87% of Trump voters believe that Christianity is an essential part of American greatness.

89% of Trump voters believe Christianity is under attack in America.

80% of Trump voters reject white privilege

87% of Trump voters are worried about anti-White discrimination.

There is a nearly perfect correlation between Trump voters who believe Christianity is essential to American greatness and concern about the growth of anti-White discrimination. These views are anathema in the cul-de-sac of White Nationalism, but typical in the Republican base.

...

There is even a thing called the Racism Index or Racism Meter. White evangelical Protestants score the highest on it. White atheists the lowest.

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If you are walled off from society inside the cul-de-sac of White Nationalism where the delusion prevails that Christcucks are the antiracists and atheism or paganism is the only way out, you would never know that the trends among White atheists have gotten worse over the past decade. They have gotten far worse on race.

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This should be obvious to anyone who remembers Charlottesville.

The White leftist atheist who joined Antifa who doxxed you, got you fired from your job or hit you with bike lock in the face in Berkeley is rapidly moving in the opposite direction. These people are far more hostile to you than ANYONE ELSE in the entire country. This includes non-Whites who aren’t even as far gone as these people.

...

If you believe that race is the only thing that matters, you have a massive blindspot. You can’t even see who values their race, who is concerned about the decline of their race and who is hostile to their own race. Your hostility to Christianity blinds you to the fact that the overwhelming majority of White people who do value their race and oppose changing racial demographics and negative cultural trends are Christians. You are traveling down a road to nowhere and pursuing a “strategy” that is utterly self defeating. You are creating an internet ghetto that is a safe space for the 2% to 3% of Far Right atheists who are receptive to your views. Instead of doing that, you should knock it off with the anti-Christian Reddit posting, exit the cul-de-sac and work with the Christians who as whole have far better politics than your fellow infidels.


The only way that we are ever going to go anywhere is to persuade White Christian Republicans to come around and drop their antiracism and conservative liberalism. We’re finally having some success in this. The message is finally breaking through after falling on deaf ears for decades.
 

Petr

Administrator
There are still places where heathen nationalism is not just a joke:



Hindu nationalism is indeed the most functional form of reactionary paganism that one can find today (I haven't seen the Japanese Shinto patriots doing anything very noteworthy lately).

But as a matter of fact, even the great pioneer of modern Hindu nationalism was able to learn from the Bible:


The Hindu nationalist V. D. Savarkar borrowed the phrase, along with quotations from Shakespeare, for his pamphlet Hindutva (1923), which celebrated Hindu culture and identity, asking whether Indians were willing to 'disown their seed, forswear their fathers and sell their birthright for a mess of pottage'.

This shows how easily the Holy Bible can act as a source of conservative, patriarchal lessons. (Selling one's birthright for a mess of pottage is exactly what modern PC Christians like David French are doing; they love their paychecks and social standing in the shitlib system more than genuine Christian doctrines and their ancestral traditions.)

And if even the Hindu activist Savarkar could do it, you can bet that Europeans in the Middle Ages, when the roots of Europe's various nationalities were laid, were doing the same, as they were climbing from primitive tribalism to the sense of national identity.
 
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Petr

Administrator

Petr

Administrator
The world has been turned upside down.

John Zmirak makes more sense these days than Richard Spencer.

Some context for this comment; back in 2010, when Richard Spencer was first starting to make his rounds, and the "Alt Right" scene felt young and fresh, Fade commented thus - ah, the memories...

(In retrospect, the 2010s was like "the decade of Dick" - the time period when Spencer could pretend to be relevant. This is how he started that decade, and I recall that his last desperate attempt to be genuinely rebellious came in January 2020, when he expressed outrage at the assassination of general Soleimani, and provocatively put an Iranian flag to his profile - but perhaps even that was just a petty attempt to stick it to Trump and pro-Israel MAGA types, rather than genuine opposition to American imperialism.)


Alternative Right


March 1, 2010

Hunter Wallace

Richard Spencer’s new website Alternative Right launched this afternoon. As many of you know, Spencer left Takimag back in January to strike out on his own. A cursory glance at Alt Right is enough to reveal that Spencer has created a superior product. He obviously signed up a very talented webmaster who has done an incredible job with the graphics. I’m glad he took his time putting this together. It was worth the wait.

Some food for thought: a podcast with Jared Taylor on the 2010 Amren Conference is available. Richard Hoste of HBD Books has an article on the Alternative Right. Paul Gottfried seems to have found a new home. Spencer promises in the opening YouTube video that Alt Right will regularly discuss HBD and other politically incorrect topics that mainstream conservatives (including some paleos) would rather die than address publicly. This is a positive indicator that Alt Right won’t pussyfoot around on the subject of race.

I think Alt Right will prove a wise move for Spencer. Takimag was holding him back. I can only imagine his frustration in having to deal with a navelgazing Catholic crybaby like John Zmirak (that’s racist!) or vapid non-entities like Christina Oxenberg (let me tell you about my purple teddy bear). Thomas Fleming spent much of last year attacking Spencer, Gottfried, and “young neo-pagans” within the paleo movement. Atheists, agnostics, and secularists are likewise anathema to the graying Chronicles crowd.

I’m glad to see the “post-paleos” doing their own thing. Alt Right will appeal to a younger audience (Gen X’ers and Gen Y’ers) who don’t have the slightest interest in kosher conservatism or paleo old fogies with their seemingly endless hairsplitting discussions about this or that Medieval Pope. The sleek web design with the podcasts and integrated social networking features reveals that Alt Right is the product of a younger mind. Gone are the flights of fancy into arcane history (i.e., the Austro-Hungarian Empire, Confederacy, Medieval Europe, Roman Empire, etc.) that clutter most paleo websites.

People our age care about relevant public policy issues: changing racial demographics driven by third world immigration, racial discrimination in the form of affirmative action, the demonization and trashing of our culture, the ruination of our currency, income stagnation, the transfer of high paying jobs overseas, the redistribution of our wealth to undeserving non-White minorities, being forced to pay into bankrupt social programs, the insufferable social etiquette of political correctness, and so on. There is plenty of good material for Alt Right to work with that doesn’t touch on the Jewish Question. We can always handle that matter on the Occidental sites.

I’m worried that some of the agent provocateurs that infest our side of the political spectrum will attempt to disrupt Alt Right before it gets off the ground. This forced Takimag to shut down the comment feature. That killed all the momentum it has generated. Alt Right’s comments seem to be open for now, but that could change if the Führer of Kirksville and his Neo-Nazi minions pull another one of their stunts. In light of experience, I bet Spencer has anticipated this problem and taken measures to prevent it from happening again. Having commentators register on Alt Right should work as a solution.

Now let me see what has been posted …
 
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Petr

Administrator
The Third Reich Nazism was the most successful right-wing pagan (or neopagan) movement ever - and even that was dependent, in its early phases, on conservative Christian voters in its rise to power.

I am far from asserting that the Nazis were pious people, but the official party line towards full-blown atheism was still frosty. For example, Himmler was a ruthless, blackhearted heathen, but he knew that the humanistic Enlightenment tradition of freethinking was not compatible with the Nazi worldview.

(After all, those ancient German barbarians whom Himmler admired would not have tolerated anyone ridiculing their tribal cults either. All traditional pagans, unless they were demoralized desperado types, had a natural urge to worship something.)


On 13 October 1933, Deputy Führer Rudolf Hess issued a decree stating: "No National Socialist may suffer any detriment on the ground that he does not profess any particular faith or confession or on the ground that he does not make any religious profession at all."[162] However, the regime strongly opposed "Godless Communism"[163][164] and all of Germany's freethinking (freigeist), atheist, and largely left-wing organizations were banned the same year.[165][166]
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Heinrich Himmler, who himself was fascinated with Germanic paganism,[170] was a strong promoter of the gottgläubig movement and he did not allow atheists into the SS, arguing that their "refusal to acknowledge higher powers" would be a "potential source of indiscipline".[36] In the SS, Himmler announced: "We believe in a God Almighty who stands above us; he has created the earth, the Fatherland, and the Volk, and he has sent us the Führer. Any human being who does not believe in God should be considered arrogant, megalomaniacal, and stupid and thus not suited for the SS."[31]
 
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Petr

Administrator
Here is an example of how Christian teaching can be applied in a more secularized setting; Apostle Paul startlingly (perhaps with some intentional exaggeration) wrote in his Epistle to the Philippians that it was a matter of indifference to him what kind of inner motives the preachers of Christian Gospel might have, as long as the gospel itself was pure and non-fraudulent - thus it is possible to get saved by listening to the words of an insincere preacher who is not himself saved:



And here is one of Fade's readers likewise opining, in the context of GOP conservatives hiding behind the backs of non-Whites like Kanye West or Tulsi Gabbard to spread to message about anti-White discrimination:


Str3tch
OCTOBER 12, 2022 AT 4:53 PM
I’m just happy these words, phrases, and ideas are getting injected into the mainstream. I appreciate it. Beyond that I don’t care much about these people. To what ends they’re doing this – personal enrichment, shoring up support for shitty GOP, or whatever cynical reason – I frankly don’t care. Just get the ideas out there.

 
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