Jesus

Lord Osmund de Ixabert

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Matt. 19:17: Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God."

Jesus dismisses the attribution of divine goodness to himself, stating that only God is truly good.

John 14:28 — "Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I."

An admission of hierarchical inferiority to the Father is both explicit and unambiguous, militating against a doctrine of coequality.

John 17:3 — "And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent."

Jesus, in his high priestly prayer, draws an unmistakable distinction between himself and the "only true God," thereby subverting the notion of coequality.

1 Tim. 2:5: "For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus."

Highlights Jesus as a "mediator" between God and men, suggesting a non-divine role.

1 John 4:12: "No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us."

No man has seen God at any time; people have seen Jesus; therefore Jesus is not God. The verse confirms that God is unseen, thereby reinforcing the distinction between Jesus and God.

John 20:17: "Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God."

Jesus makes it clear that he has a God, thereby opposing the concept of his own divinity.

John 14:1: "Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me."

Jesus separates belief in God from belief in him, suggesting two distinct entities deserving of distinct forms of belief.
 

clefty

Phoron
Hopefully to build on the discussion in the SB...

There is much out there on this but a quick google found this already:

The New Catholic Encyclopedia states: “The formulation ‘one God in three Persons’ was not solidly established, certainly not fully assimilated into Christian life and its profession of faith, prior to the end of the 4th century. But it is precisely this formulation that has first claim to the title the Trinitarian dogma. Among the Apostolic Fathers, there had been nothing even remotely approaching such a mentality or perspective.”—(1967), Vol. XIV, p. 299.


Reminds me of other doctrines developed over time and with councils...

For those with more interest and more time:


Small wonder the East vs West remain still at odds on this construction...from tradition.

As for Paul:

1 Corinthians 8:5-6 “For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as indeed there are many “gods” and many “lords”), yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.” - New International Version

1 Corinthians 15:24-28 “Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority, and power. For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. The last enemy to be destroyed is death. For “God has put everything under his feet” Now when it says that everything has been put under him, this clearly does not include the One who put everything under him. And when all things have been subjected to him, then the Son himself will be made subject to Him who put all things under him, so that God may be all in all.”

1 Corinthians 11:2,3 “But I want you to understand that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God”.

2 Corinthians 1:1-3 “Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God, and Timothy our brother, To the church of God in Corinth, together with all the saints throughout Achaia: Grace and peace to you from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of compassion and the God of all comfort,…”

Colossians 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the first-born of all creation.


Romans 15:5,6 “May the God who gives endurance and encouragement give you the same attitude of mind toward each other that Christ Jesus had, so that with one mind and one voice you may glorify the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.”

By the time of Paul's arrest and trial in 57-59AD he had written Galatians both Thessalonians both Corinthians and Romans.

All of which could have been presented as material evidence against him...any of his NEW teaching...his ANOTHER gospel...which would be significant crimes against both the Temple and da joos traditions...

But Luke had Paul saying:

Acts 24:13 "Neither can they prove the things whereof they now accuse me."

Acts 23:9 A great clamor arose, and some scribes from the party of the Pharisees got up and contended sharply, “We find nothing wrong with this man. What if a spirit or an angel has spoken to him?” 10The dispute grew so violent that the commander was afraid they would tear Paul to pieces. He ordered the soldiers to go down and remove him by force and bring him into the barracks."

Acts 24:20 "...let these men state for themselves any crime they found in me when I stood before the Sanhedrin, 21unless it was this one thing I called out as I stood in their presence: ‘It is concerning the resurrection of the dead that I am on trial before you today.’”

Acts 26:6 "And now I stand on trial because of my hope in the promise that God made to our fathers, 7the promise our twelve tribes are hoping to realize as they earnestly serve God day and night. It is because of this hope, O king, that I am accused by the Jews. 8Why would any of you consider it incredible that God raises the dead?"

Years earlier Gamaliel had advised joos wanting to KILL Peter and the disciples for teaching and preaching One resurrected and in His name:

Acts 5:38 Therefore, in the present case I advise you: Leave these men alone! Let them go! For if their purpose or activity is of human origin, it will fail. 39 But if it is from God, you will not be able to stop these men; you will only find yourselves fighting against God.”

I don't think the Pharisees before the Sanhedrin at Paul's trial would have vouched for him "We find nothing wrong with this man." or Gamaliel would have defended the disciples had any of them been preaching and teaching anything other than "Hear oh Israel our God is One"
 
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clefty

Phoron


Revelation 1:6 who has made us to be a kingdom, priests to His God and Father--to Him be the glory and power forever and ever! Amen.

the only begotten Son has not only a Father but a God...

Revelation 5:13 And I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and under the earth and in the sea, and all that is in them, saying: “To Him who sits on the throne and to the Lamb be praise and honor and glory and power forever and ever!”

Revelation 22:3 No longer will there be any curse. The throne of God and of the Lamb will be within the city, and His servants will worship Him.

...where does the third person of the trinity sit?



I got a proper name for the Father...and for His only begotten Son...

but not for the third person Holy Spirit...
 

Mike

qui transtulit sustinet
I got a proper name for the Father...and for His only begotten Son...

but not for the third person Holy Spirit...
Is the existence of an individual contingent on it having a proper name (understood according to some criteria)? Unnamed things cannot exist?
 
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