clefty
Phoron
From the SB last night:
...it went from a political victory by a "far right" candidate...to my pointing out that victory was achieved by NOT stressing "family values" namely Pro Life...and I give biblical precedent on how Paul (and the disciples) handled being a minority in a world which did NOT value as they did...hasn't been easy getting Caesar's people to follow OT ways...but Caesar's people beat them... jailed them...killed them...RNC take note please...
but it took some very interesting turns...such as being jailed being a custom of Christians meeting in secret...which annoyed the Romans?
(hopefully I didn't lose anything in reposting here...and I must say it was quite gratifying removing all the USER|IMG|JPG|/IMG||/USER| ...lol...gotta clast da icons yo)
...it went from a political victory by a "far right" candidate...to my pointing out that victory was achieved by NOT stressing "family values" namely Pro Life...and I give biblical precedent on how Paul (and the disciples) handled being a minority in a world which did NOT value as they did...hasn't been easy getting Caesar's people to follow OT ways...but Caesar's people beat them... jailed them...killed them...RNC take note please...
but it took some very interesting turns...such as being jailed being a custom of Christians meeting in secret...which annoyed the Romans?
(hopefully I didn't lose anything in reposting here...and I must say it was quite gratifying removing all the USER|IMG|JPG|/IMG||/USER| ...lol...gotta clast da icons yo)
Yesterday at 9:12 PM- Petr:
'We can no longer be ignored!' Dutch establishment shocked as Geert Wilders' right-wing Party for Freedom projected to win landslide election
Dutch exit polls are predicting Geert Wilders’ Party for Freedom (PVV) will become the largest party in the Netherlands by a considerable distance in an astonishing election result that some have called the largest political earthquake in Europe since Brexit. Two surveys conducted by Ipsos...
rmx.news
- Petr:
PVV became the biggest party in Rotterdam:
- clefty:
Wilders is pro-gay, often more so than mainstream LGBT organisations: if homophobe immigrants harass gays, Wilders wants to punish not just the perpetrators, but their entire family
- clefty:
imagine if he insisted pro life... - clefty:
Nor has the PVV advocated for a return to traditional family values. To the contrary, the party is a vocal supporter of women and gay rights, the legality of euthanasia, embryo selection and abortion – rights it believes are under siege throughout Europe. https://www.ispionline.it/en/publication/netherlands-geert-wilders-dutch-cricket-7644
- clefty:
but noooo...let's make conservatives here commit suicide making Pro life da hill to die on... - clefty:
some real son- sue tactics there by the Left/RNC I tell ya wut...asymmetric warfare will have conservatives lose every time with legislating morality on Caesar's people...
- clefty:
Petr:
I believe that is already somewhat dated information (10 years old), and that Wilders does not pander to liberal values so much any more.clefty said:
- Macrobius:
Trust the plan: https://gab.com/weremight/posts/111457572467639510
- clefty:
yeah ok Pete...google aint doing its job bringing much up on his Pro Life stance
- Petr:
Such excessive pandering to liberalism was a product of certain phase in the development of Western European nativism, when they did not yet dare to fully stand on their own two feet.
- clefty:
point being that Pro Life shouldn't be issue ONE and only...
- Petr:
Geert Wilders: the Dutch far-right figurehead sending a chill across Europe
After 20 years as a political outlier, the leader of the Netherlands’ anti-immigration Freedom party is closer to power than ever before
www.theguardian.com
Macrobius:
Every fetus is an individual creation by God. Our Lord doesn't create humans in vain.
- clefty:
right but even Paul didn't legislate the idols removed from Mars Hill as his opening act...Macrobius said:
- clefty:
caesar's people are annoyed by customs not lawful to them...again ASK PAUL
- Macrobius:
not sure what point clefty is making here
- clefty:
really?
- Macrobius:
Though Paul did have 'soft people skills' that would be the envy of any HR hiring manager today, that is true. Better CALL SAUL
Macrobius:
He was blind at first, after that, for a little while.
- clefty:
Acts 16:20They brought them to the magistrates and said, “These men are Jews and are throwing our city into turmoil 21by promoting customs that are unlawful for us Romans to adopt or practice.” 22The crowd joined in the attack against Paul and Silas, and the magistrates ordered that they be stripped and beaten with rods.…
clefty:
right...PRO LIFE is not going to go over well with caesar's people...
- Macrobius:
Praxeis
- clefty:
do you think the customs they were annoying the romans with were "we can eat pig now...no need Sabbath keeping...PRO LIFE"...lol
- Macrobius:
Fun fact: Theophilus is my patronymic translated into Saxon.
- Macrobius:
Jews were legal enough in the Roman Empire. Their beef with Christians was a different matter. - clefty:
how about when Paul healed the soothesayer and the silversmiths were worried merely Ikon making wasn't going to pay enough...lol
- clefty:
why should Romans have beef with the christians IF they served pork?Macrobius said:
- Macrobius:
I'm not sure why clefty expresses surprise. One theory is that Christians violated the Roman tolerance of Jews by meeting in SECRET. Romans only allowed a 'public cultus' and privacy violated their statehood, except for CERTAIN private gods - Macrobius:
Jews, as a legal public cult, were given a latitude by Rome that Christians were never allowed, before Constantine
- clefty:
that's what was happening here? Paul was insisting Romans to meet in secret?clefty said:
- Macrobius:
Maybe we can read what the fathers say about that passage, clefty: https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/210136.htm
- Petr:
Jews helped pagan Roman authorities to persecute Christians (like Polycarpus of Smyrna for example), and they did the same in Mesopotamia, helping Zoroastrian authorities crack down on Christian converts. - clefty:
19When the girl’s owners saw that their hope of making money was gone, they seized Paul and Silas and dragged them before the authorities in the marketplace. ...oh sure..."One theory is that Christians violated the Roman tolerance of Jews by meeting in SECRET. Romans only allowed a 'public cultus' and privacy violated their statehood, except for CERTAIN private gods"...LOLMacrobius said:
- Macrobius:
Silas is the patron saint of prisoners (an object of one of the corporeal works of mercy mentioned in the Sermon on the Mount) of course
- Petr:
"Thus, when once Sapor had started a war with Rome, it would have been almost a miracle if he had not also started a persecution of Christians; and when he returned to his palace after the first campaign, sore and angry at a humiliating repulse from Nisibis,63 it was natural to turn furiously upon them and declare, "at least we will make these Roman sympathizers pay!" That Jews, Manichaeans, and Mobeds should have urged him to this course (as the biographer of Mar Shimun believed) is probable enough; but their influence was hardly necessary.64" http://www.aina.org/books/itthotac/itthotac.htm#fn62
- Macrobius:
'You see that in many things they took their measures as men. '
- Macrobius:
OK clefty let me spell it out -- the whole episode is about the Resurrection
- Macrobius:
It takes place at night, in secret. It has an initiation from St Paul
- Macrobius:
It is quite clearly a prototype of Christian Pascha
-
- Macrobius:
Why did the Christians meet secretly at night, when the Jews were a 'nice' and well behaved cult? I'll leave that up to you.
- Macrobius:
Our Lord came into this world by a miracle -- he emerged from the womb giving his Mother no pain at all, and not even breaking her hymen, as she remained a virgin.
- clefty:
ummm...here they were THROWN in jail because of having healed the soothesayer...its custom for pascha to be celebrated in JAIL is it?Macrobius said:
- Macrobius:
That is, He walked through her walls and emerged from the Uterus of Our Mother, larger than the Heavens, with complete Dispassion (no passion, no pain)
- Macrobius:
He left this world in pain and passion, by choice, and Harrowed Hell and an angel rolled back the rock of his tomb though HE HIMSELF had no need to do so, to emerge
- clefty:
just prior the soothesayer healing 13On the Sabbath we went outside the city gate to the river, where we expected to find a place of prayer. We sat down and began to speak to the women who had gathered there. 14One of those listening was a woman from the city of Thyatira named Lydia, a dealer in purple cloth. She was a worshiper of God. The Lord opened her heart to respond to Paul’s message. 15When she and the members of her household were baptized, she invited us to her home. “If you consider me a believer in the Lord,” she said, “come and stay at my house.” And she persuaded us.
- Macrobius:
The Gaol of Hades had its door BROKEN and Hades himself bound
- clefty:
NOTHING there about meeting in SECRET...lol
- Macrobius:
clefty vs Chrysostom for the finals
- Macrobius:
- Macrobius:
- Macrobius:
clefty's religion is like putting a Turducken in the Air Fryer
- clefty:
public baptism in river on the Sabbath a day of prayer...healing fortune telling tricksters from their loot getting...but yes Paul was annoying romans with "secret meeting customs"...in JAIL...LOL
- clefty:
hopefully on the same passage...unlike you here...lolMacrobius said:
- Macrobius:
walking through walls to meet with the apostles after his resurrection... not secret
- clefty:
not advocated by Paul to the Romans...to annoy them with customs unlawful for them to keep...Paul being jooish...not secret meeting keeping Christian
- Macrobius:
Please tell me you hit backspace and read Homily 35 too
- clefty:
20They brought them before the magistrates and said, “These men are Jews, and are throwing our city into an uproar 21by advocating customs unlawful for us Romans to accept or practice.” ...SEE? nothing there about them being Christians keeping secret meetings...in JAIL
- Macrobius:
So how do we get from there to Easter Mass in 5 verses?
- Macrobius:
Hint: perhaps there are parallels to Good Friday
- clefty:
"See again Paul judaizing." LOLMacrobius said:Please tell me you hit backspace and read Homily 35 too
- Macrobius:
'We have no King but Caesar' is what the Jews ALWAYS say to the Romans
- Macrobius:
When they turn their Messiah over to be tortured
- Macrobius:
Are they being honest or truthful about that?
- Macrobius:
Are Jews in fact GOOD ROMANS?
- clefty:
certainly useful...
- Macrobius:
expedient even
- Macrobius:
Anyway, the whole episode is a type of Christian following the path of Jesus, and being 'put in prison' (killed, witnessing as martyrs) and what happens next
- Macrobius:
St John Chrysostom brings this out very clearly in the two homilies I cited.
- Macrobius:
(35 and 36 on the Acts of the Apostles, very well known commentary in fact)
- Macrobius:
If you want to understand Acts, I recommend that book -- even if it's hosted at a Catholic website.
- Macrobius:
If you don't understand Paschal typology in a Christian context -- go to a real church on Easter?
- clefty:
"Why did they not say, Because they cast out the demon, they were guilty of impiety against God? For this was a defeat to them: but instead of that, they have recourse to a charge of treason (ἐ πὶ καθοσίωσιν)" ...Christians claim Paul taught a doing away of the Mosaic Law...so what's so annoying...errr TREASONOUS by getting Romans to eat pig or not worship on the Sabbath?...lol
- Macrobius:
Even the Episcopalians in the South used to get this right
- clefty:
but not ACTUALLY following Jesus...lol...on and on it goes...Macrobius said:
- Macrobius:
I'm not sure what you mean, that Paul and Silas were not on the Christian Way in that passage.
- Macrobius:
I meant, that Paul and Silas, like Stephen the proto-martyr, were walking with Jesus on the path.
- Macrobius:
That's what the chapter is about -- and it is a very clear exposition of what Paschal Mysterys were like in the century it was written (as is Revelations, if you read it closely)
- Macrobius:
Furthermore, it is a fact that Jewish religion was legal and Christian was not, in pagan Rome, and the reason for this was that the Christian mysteries were not a public cult.
- clefty:
“These men are Jews, and are throwing our city into an uproar 21by advocating customs unlawful for us Romans to accept or practice.” IF customs handed down at Sinai were done away with at the cross...why Paul throwing the city into an uproar about not eating pig or NOT keeping Sabbaths?...or maybe Paul wasn't teaching those customs were done away with...and is why they be annoying for Romans...STILL
- Macrobius:
Jews ratting out Christians? Well, that's as old as the Crucifixion
- Macrobius:
I think you are reading your own obsessions into that passage, and misinterpreting it
- clefty:
Stephen was...joos slandered him claiming he taught Jesus did away with living oracles given at Sinai...but Luke was clear that was FALSE WITNESS...act 6:13-14Macrobius said:
- Macrobius:
It is CLEARLY to be read in the context of Paschal Midnight Mass
- clefty:
what joos ratting out? Paul healed a money maker...that was annoying to Romans...directly no other joos ratting them outMacrobius said:
- Macrobius:
Stephen was stoned because he revealed the secrets of the Throne/Chariot vision, which the Pharisees did not allow to be publically proclaimed.
- clefty:
in JAIL LOLMacrobius said:
- Macrobius:
He was a Martyr because he saw the Kabbala, not because he was killed for it. He was killed because he witnessed publicly.
- clefty:
stoned for the same reason He was killed...reminding joos they were in error
- Macrobius:
To reveal what Stephen revealed *in public* was a death sentence among the Pharisees -- a betrayal of their oral Tradition. Like ratting out Guenon or Evola today
- Macrobius:
No - he reminded them of what they knew, but hid. Like the first Adam
- Macrobius:
They were ashamed of their knowledge, and naked
- Macrobius:
(the 'Tree of Life')
- Macrobius:
'so I hid myself'... but Jesus was naked on the Tree of Life. Stripped by the Jews
- Macrobius:
And Stephen laid bare these mysteries by witnessing to them, so he was killed as a 'martyr' who had seen them -- like Elijah, like John, like Jesus and all the other martyrs, even those who went to heaven in chariots
- Macrobius:
A martyr is a person who witness something. Not someone who is killed. We don't usually kill witnesses... right? right?
- Macrobius:
Anyway, Acts 16 is about a mystery, and a very clear exposition of it too, like the Gospels.
- Macrobius:
To see without seeing, or hear without hearing... now that takes talent.
- Macrobius:
We do seem to be getting better at it these days
- clefty:
To see things that are not there or to hear things that were not said?…also known as idolatry…that’s quite easy…and typicalMacrobius said:
Last edited:
