Pope Francis says homosexuality is a sin but not a crime

clefty

Phoron

"Some 67 countries or jurisdictions worldwide criminalize consensual same-sex sexual activity, 11 of which can or do impose the death penalty, according to The Human Dignity Trust, which works to end such laws. Experts say even where the laws are not enforced, they contribute to harassment, stigmatization and violence against LGBTQ people. " Ibid.

With the recent kerfuffle and subsequent kvetching over the pope's statements I was interested to search which other violations of the 10 commandments are actually criminalized by the state.

"Although adultery is a misdemeanor in most of the states with laws against it, some — including Michigan and Wisconsin — categorize the offense as a felony." https://www.freep.com/story/life/fa...-is-cheating-on-your-spouse-illegal/28936155/

"In Michigan, it is prohibited to buy, sell, or participate in the trade of motor vehicles on Sunday." https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/blue-laws-by-state

Michigan must be a most righteous state?

There are laws against blasphemy, false witness, theft, but of course there is Law and then there is ENFORCEMENT...

"As with honoring one’s parents, a command to refrain from coveting may be a reasonable principle (depending upon how it is applied), but that doesn’t mean that it is something that can or should be enforced by the law. There is nothing in American law that even comes close to forbidding coveting." https://www.learnreligions.com/ten-commandments-basis-for-american-law-250894
 

Macrobius

Megaphoron
The Christian Fathers used to argue that Sodomy between men was a lesser crime than Sodomy within a marriage (anything besides missionary position between a married man and woman with an aim to procreation of a child in their marriage btw, if you don't know the older defnition), precisely because it is worse to defile a marriage than 'all that other shit'.

'Doing it' with men was a mitigating circumstance in assigning the length of penance and excommunication. It's so much worse when it affects the order to propagate the Human Race.

The idea that 'There is nothing in American law that even comes close to forbidding coveting.' is just misinformation. The Founding Fathers, even the Federalist ones, understood the relation between Divine, Natural, and Civil Law and their proper spheres.

Citation needed. James Wilson was an Associate Justice of the first US Supreme Court. George Washington audited this class in Philadelphia to better learn his upcoming duties in 1791:


Besides George Washington in the audience of his lecture series on 'How to be an American' and our laws, he for the first time admitted women to the lecture room, and addresses them particularly here, 'getting with the programme' of spunky female heroines in the Narrative.

I will name three women; and I will then challenge any of my brethren to name three men superiour to them in vigour and extent of abilities. My female champions are, Semiramis of Nineveh;17 Zenobia,18 the queen of the East; and Elizabeth of England. I believe it will readily be owned, that three men of superiour active talents cannot be named.

In any event, the first few chapters on the general nature of LAW will be informative of the early thinking of the American Supreme Court

My Lord Shaftesbury, who formed his taste and judgment upon ancient writers and ancient opinions, delivers it as his sentiment, “That no people in a civil state can possibly be free, when they are otherwise governed, than by such laws as they themselves have constituted, or to which they have freely given consent.”v

This subject will receive peculiar illustration and importance, when we come to consider the description and characters of municipal law. I will not anticipate here what will be introduced there with much greater propriety and force.

Of law there are different kinds. All, however, may be arranged in two different classes. 1. Divine. 2. Human laws. The descriptive epithets employed denote, that the former have God, the latter, man, for their author.

The laws of God may be divided into the following species.

I. That law, the book of which we are neither able nor worthy to open. Of this law, the author and observer is God. He is a law to himself, as well as to all created things. This law we may name the “law eternal.”

II. That law, which is made for angels and the spirits of the just made perfect. This may be called the “law celestial.” This law, and the glorious state for which it is adapted, we see, at present, but darkly and as through a glass: but hereafter we shall see even as we are seen; and shall know even as we are known. From the wisdom and the goodness of the adorable Author and Preserver of the universe, we are justified in concluding, that the celestial and perfect state is governed, as all other things are, by his established laws. What those laws are, it is not yet given us to know; but on one truth we may rely with sure and certain confidence—those laws are wise and good. For another truth we have infallible authority—those laws are strictly obeyed: “In heaven his will is done.”

III. That law, by which the irrational and inanimate parts of the creation are governed. The great Creator of all things has established general and fixed rules, according to which all the phenomena of the material universe are produced and regulated. These rules are usually denominated laws of nature. The science, which has those laws for its object, is distinguished by the name of natural philosophy. It is sometimes called, the philosophy of body. Of this science, there are numerous branches.

IV. That law, which God has made for man in his present state; that law, which is communicated to us by reason and conscience, the divine monitors within us, and by the sacred oracles, the divine monitors without us. This law has undergone several subdivisions, and has been known by distinct appellations, according to the different ways in which it has been promulgated, and the different objects which it respects.

As promulgated by reason and the moral sense, it has been called natural; as promulgated by the holy scriptures, it has been called revealed law.

As addressed to men, it has been denominated the law of nature; as addressed to political societies, it has been denominated the law of nations.

But it should always be remembered, that this law, natural or revealed, made for men or for nations, flows from the same divine source: it is the law of God.

Nature, or, to speak more properly, the Author of nature, has done much for us; but it is his gracious appointment and will, that we should also do much for ourselves. What we do, indeed, must be founded on what he has done; and the deficiencies of our laws must be supplied by the perfections of his. Human law must rest its authority, ultimately, upon the authority of that law, which is divine.

Of that law, the following are maxims—that no injury should be done—that a lawful engagement, voluntarily made, should be faithfully fulfilled. We now see the deep and the solid foundations of human law.

It is of two species. 1. That which a political society makes for itself. This is municipal law. 2. That which two or more political societies make for themselves. This is the voluntary law of nations.

In all these species of law—the law eternal—the law celestial—the law natural—the divine law, as it respects men and nations—the human law, as it also respects men and nations—man is deeply and intimately concerned. Of all these species of law, therefore, the knowledge must be most important to man.

Those parts of natural philosophy, which more immediately relate to the human body, are appropriated to the profession of physick.

The law eternal, the law celestial, and the law divine, as they are disclosed by that revelation, which has brought life and immortality to light, are the more peculiar objects of the profession of divinity.

The law of nature, the law of nations, and the municipal law form the objects of the profession of law.

From this short, but plain and, I hope, just statement of things, we perceive a principle of connexion between all the learned professions; but especially between the two last mentioned. Far from being rivals or enemies, religion and law are twin sisters, friends, and mutual assistants. Indeed, these two sciences run into each other. The divine law, as discovered by reason and the moral sense, forms an essential part of both.

From this statement of things, we also perceive how important and dignified the profession of the law is, when traced to its sources, and viewed in its just extent.

The immediate objects of our attention are, the law of nature, the law of nations, and the municipal law of the United States, and of the several states which compose the Union. It will not be forgotten, that the constitutions of the United States, and of the individual states, form a capital part of their municipal law. On the two first of these three great heads, I shall be very general. On the last, especially on those parts of it, which comprehend the constitutions and publick law, I shall be more particular and minute.
Notice that the Roman (Justinian) legal schema of Natural Law and Common Law ('The Law of Nations') are placed *above* the Municipal, Civil law that is dispensed in our courts.

About the 'International or Common Law of Mankind' I will just point out -- there are no 'Gay Tribes, Clans, Races, or Gentile Nations' in the Divine Law.
 
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Macrobius

Megaphoron
I. That law, the book of which we are neither able nor worthy to open. Of this law, the author and observer is God. He is a law to himself, as well as to all created things. This law we may name the “law eternal.”

II. That law, which is made for angels and the spirits of the just made perfect. This may be called the “law celestial.” This law, and the glorious state for which it is adapted, we see, at present, but darkly and as through a glass: but hereafter we shall see even as we are seen; and shall know even as we are known. From the wisdom and the goodness of the adorable Author and Preserver of the universe, we are justified in concluding, that the celestial and perfect state is governed, as all other things are, by his established laws. What those laws are, it is not yet given us to know; but on one truth we may rely with sure and certain confidence—those laws are wise and good. For another truth we have infallible authority—those laws are strictly obeyed: “In heaven his will is done.”

III. That law, by which the irrational and inanimate parts of the creation are governed. The great Creator of all things has established general and fixed rules, according to which all the phenomena of the material universe are produced and regulated. These rules are usually denominated laws of nature. The science, which has those laws for its object, is distinguished by the name of natural philosophy. It is sometimes called, the philosophy of body. Of this science, there are numerous branches.

IV. That law, which God has made for man in his present state; that law, which is communicated to us by reason and conscience, the divine monitors within us, and by the sacred oracles, the divine monitors without us. This law has undergone several subdivisions, and has been known by distinct appellations, according to the different ways in which it has been promulgated, and the different objects which it respects.


This terminology by the way, he derived from the Anglican Theologian Hooker, as adopted in the tradition of Presbyterian (Calvinist) polemics, which Wilson learned during the course of his education in Scotland, who in turn got it from St Thomas Aquinas, as part of the shared Western tradition of Scholasticism, which broke into Protestant and Catholic streams, but had a common source. It is a well known explanation in the West of Law, and we can only pretend it is not part of our history, whatever the current 'Pope' says about his own religion.

In other words, he is more or less discussion those points of Western Legal Thinking on which Protestants, Catholics, Anglicans (and probably to a great extent Orthodox) Christians, and certainly those in the West, all agree.

Of course we must remember that this 1776 thing was pretty much anti-Catholic and in Massachusetts anti-Anglican ('Quebec Act' wanted to impose Episcopal bishops on Massachusetts and equate them with the Catholic rule in Quebec), anti-Orthodox (look up the anti-Tribonian league among the Federalists meaning they opposed Justinian's 'Civil Law' and favoured their Germanic roots in 'Common Law' over their Roman ones)... and so was quite 'Protestant' on the whole.

However, Wilson was going for the practical 'common ground' here when he appealed to the superiority of the Divine Oracles [[ Bible if you missed the ref ]] as an external constraint on merely human legislation, which is about to become his main topic... He wasn't exactly being an Edge-Lord with this either.
 
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Macrobius

Megaphoron
"As with honoring one’s parents,

Just an aside, but Colonial era laws in some states enjoin Filial Responsibility (the duty of a son to care for his parents in old age) and this has been used by Nursing Homes to pass on debts of a dead parent to their children -- I'm not sure if the laws in question 'discriminate' on the basis of sex, but it is clear who is meant if you have surviving male heirs.

So, it's not exactly a theoretical question. Pennsylvania is famous for this.

I suspect the law is selectively enforced against Whites but I have no evidence of this besides being sentient and clued in to how the world works.

'Trump gave me more money than my old man ever did'
 
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Gawn Chippin

Arachnocronymic Metaphoron
A former Pope once claimed that it's not a sin to exist as a homosexual. It is a sin, though, to engage in homosexual acts (I'm assuming, he meant exclusively male homosexuality?)
 
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