Scientists create 'human entity' from stem cells -- artificial embryo

Macrobius

Megaphoron
No sperm or ovum need apply


Excerpt:

...

According to the BBC, chemicals were used to encourage these stem cells to develop into four unique cell types that are involved in the earliest stages of human embryo development…

  • epiblast cells, which become the embryo proper (or foetus)
  • trophoblast cells, which become the placenta
  • hypoblast cells, which become the supportive yolk sac
  • extraembryonic mesoderm cells
Those cell types were then “mixed in a precise ratio”, and what happened next is extremely alarming…

A total of 120 of these cells were mixed in a precise ratio – and then, the scientists step back and watch.
About 1% of the mixture began the journey of spontaneously assembling themselves into a structure that resembles, but is not identical to, a human embryo.

...

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Macrobius

Megaphoron
Patentable quasi-human slaves... comin' through. Oh wait, we already have that.

To answer the obvious philosophical questions, tentatively:

My guess since it is an aggregate of human tissue that doesn't have 'proper form' it is likely non-viable, and if it were it would be 'interesting' to see what genetics it would have.

Growing tissue is what 'stem cells' are -- this is some human-derived tissue. The fact it is taking the 'form' of an embryo doesn't make it either a human organ, or a human organism. If such a thing is even possible.

It certainly is an interesting experimental test of 'whether human life begins at conception' and the related science and theology. But not really a line of inquiry that should be pursued -- stem cell research is already dodgy.

I don't suppose they will call it what it is -- recycled abortion tissue.
 

Macrobius

Megaphoron
Weizmann Institute of Science



Original article: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-023-06604-5

Only abstract available w/o subscription:

The ability to study human post-implantation development remains limited due to ethical and technical challenges associated with intrauterine development after implantation1. Embryo-like models with spatially organized morphogenesis of all defining embryonic and extra-embryonic tissues of the post-implantation human conceptus (i.e., embryonic disk, bilaminar disk, yolk- and chorionic sacs, surrounding trophoblasts) remain lacking2. Mouse naïve embryonic stem cells (ESCs) have recently been shown to give rise to embryonic and extra-embryonic stem cells capable of self-assembling into post-gastrulation mouse Structured Stem cell-based Embryo Models with spatially organized morphogenesis (SEMs)3. Here, we extend these findings to humans, while using only genetically unmodified human naïve ESCs (in HENSM conditions)4. Such human fully integrated SEMs recapitulate the organization of nearly all known lineages and compartments of post-implantation human embryos including epiblast, hypoblast, extra-embryonic mesoderm, and trophoblast surrounding the latter layers. These human complete SEMs demonstrated developmental growth dynamics that resemble key hallmarks of post-implantation stage embryogenesis up to 13-14 days post-fertilization (dpf) (Carnegie stage 6a). This includes embryonic disk and bilaminar disk formation, epiblast lumenogenesis, polarized amniogenesis, anterior-posterior symmetry breaking, PGC specification, polarized yolk sac with visceral and parietal endoderm, extra-embryonic mesoderm expansion that defines a chorionic cavity and a connecting stalk, a trophoblast surrounding compartment demonstrating syncytium and lacunae formation. This SEM platform may enable the experimental interrogation of previously inaccessible windows of human early post-implantation up to peri-gastrulation development.

Mentioned:


Late stage 5 to early stage 6. (That is, well after implantation would have occurred in a human embryo.

Context for gastrulation:

 
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Buglord

Member
my question is if the baby comes out what is the pigmentation of its skin and how tall would an artificial human be.
 

Macrobius

Megaphoron
Would this creation even be conscious? If yeah, what would be the true definition of a soul?

Both modern science and Scholasticism have answers to these questions, though 'conscious' and 'soul' are problematic ones in (post-Marxist) science of course.

A more basic question: is it even life? We don't really consider that somethings capable of replication fail to be alive. Two examples are: 1/ no one believes crystals are alive, yet they do seem capable of a kind of replication and growth. 2/ a harder case is viruses, which in modern science have traditionally been held to be 'not alive' while at the same time showing a kind of host-based reproduction, and having evolutionary processes resulting in a 'quasi species'.

The traditional (both Greek Pagan and Christian) definition of 'alive' is that everything alive (including plants and animals) has some kind of soul, and that the 'faculties' of the human soul include plant like (growth and nutrition and reproduction including sexual), animal like (self-mobility and 'sensitive cognition' down through self-intereested calculation for things like 'hunting'), and human like functions (abstract thought, intellect).

A borderline case would be human or animal tissue growing in a test tube, including of course embryos. In vitro fertilization and subsequent implantation into a 'host mother' followed by live birth is already a fact -- so en-souled matter even for humans has been conceived in a test tube, and it doesn't just 'get its soul' at the moment of implantation (or live birth).

The special thing about these quasi-human embryos is that they are 1/ engendered asexually, so that the 'maternal host' is a female egg and the 'paternal ancestor' in a genetic sense is cloned asexually. 2/ they have 'grown' the SEM (stem-cell embryo model) *past* the point of implantation in the uterine lining, and without benefit of a placenta.

BTW, in some techniques (not sure about the OP), the way this is done is to create a mutant human egg that has CANCER genes inserted into it and turned on, so it will grow stem cells like crazy, in cancer-fashion. Then *possibly* to try to turn those same genes off at some point, so the cell / tissue line stabilizes.

So it is unlikely that it would *ever* develop into a viable human embryo capable of eventual birth, or be suitable for artificial implantation as a 'human clone' into a host mother, as was done famously for other mammals with 'Dolly the sheep'.

Thus, what we have is a colony of stem cells starting off with a cancerous host-mother (the modified human egg that has its nucleus replaced with a post-fertilization stem cell line nucleus and starts to divide as a *normal* cell -- never fertilized) and growing through the 'normal' stages but past the point of viable implantation. It is halfway between an 'artificial clone' like Dolly and a 'normal in vitro fertilization child' -- but has grown beyond the point of being other. Don't forget that 'natural clones' happen all the time -- we call them twins.

So, I answer the questions as best I can from a Christian, Scholastic perspective:

1. tissue, including stem cells generally and these stem cells in particular, exhibits a kind of life, but is not a living organism. Tissue growing in a vat, which is cells undergoing meiosis and mitosis, is alive in the same sense growing cancer cells artificially for study is alive. The life is not organized into a living entity, so it may be a life but does not possess a soul/life of its own and is not a *new* living organism yet. It is not even clear whether it has or will develop organs or 'cease to function' even in the sense of keeping an organ alive for transplant, much less successful raising of a clone.

If you hack off a human arm, it is still 'alive' for a while though it 'dies' and starts to decay over a period of time, like any human organ separated from its body. It doesn't possess a soul of its own, and will never form a complete organism (new soul). It was 'created' by hacking, not by any living reproductive process. Nor if the person who lost the arm lives have you 'killed a soul' though you have damaged one, and also a damaged human 'donor' of the arm. If you manage to re-attach it to another human being and it becomes a living organ of another living soul you have managed an organ transplant, not created a new organism. Same thing with 'tissue grafts'.

A soul is an living entity that has a body, such as a plant, an animal, or a human.

2. this tissue is not fertilized, but undergoes a process similar to cloning. As above, this means it owes its soul to whichever human baby was sacrificed in the past to create the stem cells that provide the viable nucleus with its full genetic complement (only possible via fertilization).

Cloning a viable human embryo in vitro, with or without subsequent implantation, has not been achieved so we don't know if it is 'possible', though it may be.

3. 'consciousness' is not even in view for this tissue, as it is an 'embryo model' and not even a viable embryo capable of developing into a human organism (or any other kind of organism) by any foreseeable process. Modern science cannot even explain the phenomenon of consciousness, much less define it.

As far as we know, consciousness requires intelligence (at least). Probably there are two kinds -- related to the distinction of sensitive intelligence/cognition and rational intelligence/cognition, which is not an accepted distinction in Modern Science, though important for Christianity.

There is a qualitative difference between rational animals (humans), and irrational beasts (non-human animals). That difference is due to the SPECIAL CREATION of each individual human soul at conception -- a process requiring divine intervention, similar to the creation of the World. Clearly, this can happen in the test tube, as 'in vitro fertilization' results in viable human babies not otherwise different from any other viviparous child. To the best of our knowledge, the fertilization process is REQUIRED to create a full human organism, though we do not know what miracles of creation God may choose to do in the future.

Modern science is committed, variously, to the idea that we are really dead (no soul) and that our apparent consciousness is just an illusion -- 'Man the Machine'. Or more commonly to the halfway position, which is to admit that animals are alive (but that 'soul' is an obsolete 'theory' of what life *is*), and to insist, without any particular evidence for it, that humans are *just* animals and since we evolved from animal life some other animal could evolve to be, implicitly, our equal or superior. Including evolving ourselves to be superior to existing humans -- the real purpose of this line of inquiry in 'progressive Marxism'.
 
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Macrobius

Megaphoron
my question is if the baby comes out what is the pigmentation of its skin and how tall would an artificial human be.
Easy to answer the first part -- if humans were ever created by a cloning process, their skin would come out white. All human babies have the neonatal characteristic of white skin for at least a few days. The pigmentation in Blacks doesn't really kick in for at least three days (about how long it takes a healthy homeborn child to lose the jaundice, after exposure to sunlight and its mother's milk (Vitamin D)).

White skin and black skin are separately controlled by different genes. There are three genes involved in 'white skin' and about eight needed to get the darkest shade of melanin pigmentation. They are independent (though correlated in different populations for evolutionary reasons) and have only some but not all is like Mendel's peas. So, what happens after the birth would depend on the genetics of the embryo, unless the biochemistry is really screwed up an abnormal (as it was with Dolly the sheep).

Whites are genetically programmed to *retain* White skin until a very late age. Neo-Natal mutations are the *easiest* for evolution to provide, since they only change the time table (for the rollout of pigmentation), not the organism's underlying function in other ways. Another Neo-natal gene Whites have is lactose tolerance.

If you ever live to see a world in which your age is maintained after age 122 (hard stop, currently, for human life), then you will have dark skin because your White skin will have 'worn off' and you will have a darker pigmentation colour. 'Neo-natal' isn't forever -- just until you go ga-ga.

Sorry, man. You'll die a Nigger.
 
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Macrobius

Megaphoron
Let me spell out the genetics a bit:

The experiment of 'what happens if you mix Whites and Niggers 50-50' has already been done and the answer is know. You get Puerto Ricans. Or Brazilians.

Some things you might not expect: two 'white parents' can have a BLEND of colours for children (this is what Mendel's peas means and the term 'heterozygous' in Biology)

Why doesn't this happen in America? Because we have a history of segregation and race-mixing around 1-2% -- which puts the rate for this effect at 100-200 babies a year in a country our size. = very little folk awareness about the facts of biology.

If the PTB have their way, and with 11% niggers (and lots more 'Hispanics') what happens isn't Brazil but Argentina -- the blacks actually get left out, and end up like a sort of ring on the bathtub. It creates genetic problems but you don't end up with much black skin at all.

Even if we had 50% niggers (we don't) you end up like Puerto Rico. Where a could of 'blanco' parents can frequently have a blaq kid.

What exactly does this do to the anti-White narrative? If Whites can *naturally* have blaq kids, are they evil?

I'll just leave this thought here. Nature will find a whey. (and the spider sat down besider)
 

Gawn Chippin

Arachnocronymic Metaphoron
...A borderline case would be human or animal tissue growing in a test tube, including of course embryos. In vitro fertilization and subsequent implantation into a 'host mother' followed by live birth is already a fact -- so en-souled matter even for humans has been conceived in a test tube, and it doesn't just 'get its soul' at the moment of implantation (or live birth)...
The ability of an animate life form to become calculative of its surroundings sets a precedent. Brainless animates such as the Venus Flytrap could get left out of this discussion?
Then we have transbreeding between mostly unrelated species, to consider:



Pihu.jpg
 

Macrobius

Megaphoron
The ability of an animate life form to become calculative of its surroundings sets a precedent. Brainless animates such as the Venus Flytrap could get left out of this discussion?
Then we have transbreeding between mostly unrelated species, to consider:

Venus Flytraps are CORE of the Confederate answer to Wilsonian Yankees.

You can keep them alive with hamburger. But what they really want is Lawyers.
 
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