Your Car Is Tracking You Just as Much as Your Smartphone Is

Macrobius

Megaphoron
Your Car Is Tracking You Just as Much as Your Smartphone Is—and Your Data Is at Risk
As the U.S. enters a new era of lawmaking, connected cars could become the new front of legal battles.

Most modern cars know their locations better than their owners do. As suites of connected-car apps become mainstream for both emergency functionality (such as General Motors' OnStar) or for owner conveniences such as remote start or parking guidance, new vehicles are overflowing with data needed to support always-on connectivity.

While most owner concerns (and popular attention) have been fixed on unallowed hacks into such systems by bad actors, there are still massive troves of automatically generated data open to anyone with the knowledge to access it, and even the "proper" use of this data can be a risk to consumers who seek privacy. Your home, your work, every trip you've taken no matter how private: it all can be seen by companies, countries, and individuals you've never given permission to follow your travels, and completely legally.

Struggling to think of a need for privacy besides what's already been extensively reported and debated? One recent example: As certain states attempt to make previously legal medical care (such as abortion, contraception, and basic trans-related medication and care) illegal to access, the modern connected car and its troves of data have the potential to become a government’s unintentional best friend and a driver's worst enemy as prosecution intensifies. Even if you're not immediately affected by your car tracking your habits, state law has been changing increasingly rapidly—families in Texas found their access to trans care restricted within a week of the governor's directive to eliminate it—and you may find yourself criminalized a week from now unexpectedly over some other arbitrary decision.

The good news is there's already proposed legislation to combat the current freewheeling fate of our privacy. The bad news is we don't know how long that legislation will take to pass, if it does at all.

GPS, Wifi, and a Treasure Trove Onboard
To understand how driving a car could incriminate someone, it’s worth examining just what kind of data the car itself collects and transmits.

In 2021, 90 percent of cars sold in the United States—and around 130 million total cars sold worldwide—contained some form of embedded connectivity. This built-in connectivity can take many forms (built-in Wi-Fi connectivity, infotainment systems that connect to cellular networks, and even Bluetooth systems) but all of them share a few things in common: They collect (and transmit) massive amounts of data, they are usually truly embedded in the physical car (and comprise some core functionality of it), and owners rarely have control of where it ends up. This trove of data is known as telematics, and it’s a multi-billion-dollar industry with wide-reaching implications for consumers.

An earlier study from 2017, undertaken by a student at the University of Ontario Institute of Technology, pulled similar location data from a variety of late-model vehicles’ infotainment systems that logged exact coordinates even when the GPS was not engaged. In certain versions of Ford’s Sync infotainment system installed in mid-2010s-era Fords, the researcher found that “vehicle and system generated events also generated GPS coordinates which can further be used to prove the vehicle user’s exact location at specific times (for e.g. when the vehicle shifts gear and vehicle doors are opened/closed, GPS coordinates are generated).”

An example demonstration log in the study, pulled from a 2013 Ford F-150, shows GPS coordinates being stored when opening or closing a car door. With this frequency and precision, it’s easy to retrace exactly where that truck has been.

Rest at the Link or https://tunisbayclub.com/index.php?...-you-just-as-much-as-your-smartphone-is.1311/
 

Macrobius

Megaphoron
One of the nice things about the article is the references.

Here's the PDF of the 2017 thesis referenced, for example https://ir.library.ontariotechu.ca/xmlui/bitstream/handle/10155/821/Lacroix_Jesse.pdf
(the link in the article goes to a text dump rather than a PDF, which is less readable)

tl;dr - this is an active area of security research, though the paper is 5 years old (but so are many vehicles...)

OTA (over the air) updates that brick your car or kill you are just a matter of time.

To answer the implicit request above -- one has to start with threat analysis and vulnerability analysis, both of which turn on attack surface and threat capabilities to exploit it, for whichever scenarios concern you.

Here's the attack surface:

Screenshot 2022-07-06 10.23.12 AM.png

Not counting dealer installed passthru devices they leave in place to do maintenance next time you come in, and that have no authentication:

No authentication checks are done by the internal components when a PassThru device connects to it, meaning anyone connected to the PassThru gains automatic access to the OBD II port.
In this case, it's a big deal -- and repeating for every make and model on the road is easily as big a deal as investigating the communications infrastructure, industrial security, or grid level infrastructure of the US or the World.
 

Macrobius

Megaphoron
About threat analysis and intelligence products, we have the words of Gildor:

But if you desire clearer counsel, you should ask Gandalf. I do not know the reason for your flight , and therefore I do not know by what means your pursuers will assail you. These things Gandalf [[Odin, clearly]] must know. I suppose that you will see him before you leave the Shire?' 'I hope so. But that is another thing that makes me anxious. I have been expecting Gandalf for many days. He was to have come to Hobbiton at the latest two nights ago; but he has never appeared. Now I am wondering what can have happened. Should I wait for him?' Gildor was silent for a moment. 'I do not like this news,' he said at last. 'That Gandalf should be late, does not bode well. But it is said: Do not meddle in the affairs of Wizards, for they are subtle and quick to anger. The choice is yours: to go or wait.' 'And it is also said,' answered Frodo: 'Go not to the Elves for counsel, for they will say both no and yes.' 'Is it indeed?' laughed Gildor. 'Elves seldom give unguarded advice, for advice is a dangerous gift, even from the wise to the wise, and all courses may run ill. But what would you? You have not told me all concerning yourself; and how then shall I choose better than you? But if you demand advice, I will for friendship's sake give it. I think you should now go at once, without delay; and if Gandalf does not come before you set out, then I also advise this: do not go alone. Take such friends as are trusty and willing. Now you should be grateful, for I do not give this counsel gladly. The Elves have their own labours and their own sorrows, and they are little concerned with the ways of hobbits, or of any other creatures upon earth. Our paths cross theirs seldom, by chance or purpose. In this meeting there may be more than chance; but the purpose is not clear to me, and I fear to say too much.' 'I am deeply grateful,' said Frodo; 'but I wish you would tell me plainly what the Black Riders are. If I take your advice I may not see Gandalf for a long while, and I ought to know what is the danger that pursues me.' 'Is it not enough to know that they are servants of the Enemy?' answered Gildor. 'Flee them! Speak no words to them! They are deadly. Ask no more of me! But my heart forbodes that, ere all is ended, you, Frodo son of Drogo, will know more of these fell things than Gildor Inglorion. May Elbereth protect you!' 'But where shall I find courage?' asked Frodo. 'That is what I chiefly need.' 'Courage is found in unlikely places,' said Gildor. 'Be of good hope! Sleep now! In the morning we shall have gone; but we will send our messages through the lands. The Wandering Companies shall know of your journey, and those that have power for good shall be on the watch. I name you Elf-friend; and may the stars shine upon the end of your road! Seldom have we had such delight in strangers, and it is fair to hear words of the Ancient Speech from the lips of other wanderers in the world.' Frodo felt sleep coming upon him, even as Gildor finished speaking. 'I will sleep now,' he said; and the Elf led him to a bower beside Pippin, and he threw himself upon a bed and fell at once into a dreamless slumber.

tl;dr

1/ understand what you are fleeing before you assess the Ways and Means of the Enemy

2/ unguarded advice is a dangerous gift, and a fearful master

3/ always remember there is an LOTR in SaLOTRean [1] Your Crustacean Bros you should not forget.

Screenshot 2022-07-08 7.45.03 AM.png[2]

[1]: https://archive.amarna-forum.net/salo/salo/008722_learning-logistics-from-lotr-and-got_p001_o.html

Elves and Wizards are standing by to take your call....

[2]: - Hail @Longbard
 
Last edited:

Grug Arius

Phorus Primus
Staff member
Get a pre-ODB vehicle if you can.
Carburetors are kinda pain in the ass. Prior to 2001 vehicles had much less crap in the way of overbearing safety duh-vices and snoopware that records data useful to insurance companies and investigations.

I spent most of my life futzing with the temperamental carbs, and I still use them on small engines and one truck, but prefer fuel injection and obd by a country mile.

But the old breaker points ignition will probably be totally immune to any EMP or carrington event. Carbed vehicles with electronic ignition have the worst of both worlds
 

Lord Osmund de Ixabert

I X A B E R T.com
Excellent.

Also, I don't have a smart phone. Had one briefly. I chucked it because it allowed people to communicate with me whenever they wanted to, even if I was far away from my home. If I wanted to talk with a particular person then I would be already talking to them in person, or on my way to see them. I wouldn't be doing something completely different all by myself, hundreds of miles away from most of the people who were tring to talk with me.

They actually expected me to answer all of my calls, no matter where I was. And only because they knew I happened to have a cell phone. So because of cell phones the definition of what is considered obligatory behaviour in social communications has completely changed.

They seemed to think it obligatory to answer the phone--and bad manners to ignore it. How preposterous is his. For clearly it is bad manners to telephone me if it is with the expectation that I should answer the call no matter what.

It is also bad manners to interrupt whatever I happen to be doing by causing my phone to sound an alarm, which is jarring enough by itself -- just to say you want to talk with me about some trivial thing. Most of the time it'd've been better if i hadn't been interrupted--but most people are not very considerate (a sign of bad breeding, leading to habitual bad manners regardless of intentions).

If it mattered at all you would have come and found me, and spoken with me in person.

Because smart phones breed bad manners, and I could see it in many other ways corrupting the social behaviours of people I know, or people I have seen using smart phones in social gatherings, I had no choice but to dispose of the thing. It is now at the bottom of a lake.

I suggest everyone else do the same.

Yes your phone is likely tracking you, knows who you are, and is keeping a record of all your communications (not only telephone and email communications, but also all the things said by anyone who happens to be in the vicinity of the device).

But the destructive effect that these devices have already had on manners and human relations ought to be even more alarming.
 
Last edited:
I just buy cheap phones off ebay, destroy them if I get suspicious and change the number if I get hints that my phone has been tapped. It's all about being able to turn it off in a minor situation and destroy it in a major one. I don't mind random calls as long as I could put a stop to it because I'm not locked into an expensive one.
 

Macrobius

Megaphoron
I just buy cheap phones off ebay, destroy them if I get suspicious and change the number if I get hints that my phone has been tapped. It's all about being able to turn it off in a minor situation and destroy it in a major one. I don't mind random calls as long as I could put a stop to it because I'm not locked into an expensive one.

This is the correct attitude. Learn what Threat Analysis is, and deal with that shit.

It's not optional these days.

'There is no Intelligence without Counter-Intelligence'

Thread related to this one:

 

Gawn Chippin

Arachnocronymic Metaphoron
I'm thankfull for owning a late 90s stripped-down Japanese import. The radio is gone and the vehicle electronics is limitted to a board computer for the simpler injection system of which doesen't measure sparkplug wire resistance, unlike the more complex variant installed in later models.
Anti-theft and airbag are all that's left. No ABS, even:ECU_Wegfahr.jpg
Therefore, no known possibility for tracking and/or hacking.
Incidently, Jörg Haider was suspected of getting assassinated, through remote manipulation of his vehicle's Drive by Wire electronics:


...This vehicle is considered one of the safest worldwide. Especially at top speeds. It has all-wheel drive, ABS, ESP, ASR - highly developed, "thinking" stability programs that react at lightning speed in an emergency and, if necessary, even brake individual wheels separately. And prevent the car from skidding. With Haider, this electronics supposedly failed from A-Z. It must seem completely inexplicable to every VW factory technician how the 2 ½ tonne vehicle rolled over by "taking along" a flimsy town sign and touching a curb and a low thuja hedge that it dismantled in such a way. Hours after the accident, a blogger on a discussion platform wondered: "I'm an experienced B license driver. I've taken part in a number of seminars - also at VW. There have often been attempts to drive a car that even with the rear tires on the green verge at over 100 km/h to make you skid. Doesn't usually work. And surely the Phaeton was a 4-Motion?" He was. The credo of ESP and 4-Motion is now precisely to prevent a car from skidding and being thrown out of control. (VW advertises the VW Phaeton with the slogan: "Come home") Appear in this context as striking as it is incomprehensible Haider's multiple and serious injuries, who must have literally been torn apart inside the high-security vehicle: his left arm was practically severed from his torso The VW Phaeton is said to have the most stable passenger cell in the world, especially in the armored variant that Haider has driven. In the Internet encyclopedia Wikipedia, the Wolfsburg-based company advertises the "highest torsional rigidity ever achieved by a car body". Furthermore, the car has no fewer than 12 (twelve!) airbags all around, welc he - designed separately for the face, head and chest areas - turn a traffic accident into a real pillow fight for the occupants. It should be virtually impossible to die in such a car, especially if you are buckled up, as in the case of Haider...
 
Last edited:

Gawn Chippin

Arachnocronymic Metaphoron

From tomorrow on, all new vehicles sold in the EU must be equipped with black boxes that record technical data and are accessible to the authorities. This paves the way for supervisory-controlled speed limit systems.

While drivers can opt out of the feature for now, privacy advocates fear the technology will become mandatory once properly rolled out.

In 2019, the European Road Safety Council (ETSC) announced that from July 6th of this year, all car manufacturers will be obliged to equip new models with a system for recording technical data.

The recorded data includes "vehicle speed, braking, steering wheel angle, road slope, and whether the vehicle's various safety systems were operational, starting with the seat belts."

While insurance companies do not have direct access to the data, law enforcement agencies can view it.

Authorities claim the data will be "anonymized," meaning the information cannot be used to identify the owner of the vehicle.

It is expected that such systems will eventually incorporate speed-limiting technology.

As Didi Rankovic of Reclaim the Net explains, the most common speed limiting method is Intelligent Speed Assist (ISA).

“ISA only works with GPS data, traffic sign recognition cameras at the front of the vehicle, or a combination of both. A speed limiter affects engine performance, thereby reducing speed.”

“As the name suggests, speed limiters are designed to prevent drivers from exceeding certain speed limits, warning them through audible, visual and haptic warnings until they 'obey' and slow down.

For decades, governments have been pushing for all cars to be fitted with black boxes that record location data.

The most recent dystopian scenario sees police being given the power to use similar technology to completely stop a vehicle from operating if the driver has committed a crime.

This doesn't have to be a criminal offense. But if social credit scoring systems continue to prosecute, it could eventually be used as a form of punishment for anything from unpaid utility bills to offensive comments on social media.
 

Gawn Chippin

Arachnocronymic Metaphoron
...the old breaker points ignition will probably be totally immune to any EMP or carrington event...
Breaker points will allow push-starts with low battery capacity, in vehicles where magnetic anchors generate the voltage needed to supply the ignition coil. On passenger cars, you could temporarilly by-pass the ballast resistor, in order to start the vehicle, when the battery reaches 6 volts.
Whereas an electronic ignition system will do nothing, until the battery gets charged to a required minimum
 

Macrobius

Megaphoron
Even then, you're leaving data behind. I bought my throa away at the local ALDI and payed cash for it, leaving absolutely no forensic traces to get tracked

I remember when you could buy 'tracfone's with cash and charge them with 'cards' you also purchased anonymously with cash. ZOG quickly wised up and made you show your birth certificate, SSN, and give a blood sample get a sail phone soon after. Not exactly but close. Biosamples, DNA and other biometrics can't be far off though.

Their early software had a flaw and when I uploaded a 100 minute card (also anonymously purchased with cash) it gave me '10,000+' minutes, the maximum possible. Maybe it was set to infinity and would never run out -- who knows as I lost control of it a bit later, as explained below.

Ah, the naughty aughties.

Unfortunately a daughter of mine left it in her backpack when her school played a band concert at some nigger screwl venue and learned the hardway 'high trust' isn't a thing some places. Lesson worth every penny of course.

Somewhere, there's probably still a very happy Jungle Bunny ordering droogs or pimpin' it up on Aurora Blvd/Hwy 99 (our 'red light' district). At least I like to think so.

LOL Obama phones. Ring ring ring... OBAMA PHONE.


Use Yankee Tech, play Yankee games, Nigras. You fuckers are going do have to a Yankee-Hajj... you know that, right? Right?
 
Last edited:

Macrobius

Megaphoron
Meanwhile...


Venntel alone boasts that its database includes location information from more than 250 million devices. The documents also show agency staff having internal conversations about privacy concerns on using phone location data.
 
Last edited:
Top