Is Bergoglio Really the Pope?

clefty

Phoron
Various opinions on Pope Francis are being expressed, but only one can be correct. In today's Vortex, Michael breaks down the hard truth about Pope Francis' legitimacy as supreme pontiff.



"Furthermore, we declare, we proclaim, we define for salvation that every human creature be subject to the ROMAN pontiff." Pope Boniface VIII (AD 1302)

"accept...what the Church tells us...until a competent Authority declares otherwise..." (41'29")
 
Last edited:

clefty

Phoron
But the pendulum is swinging right...counter counter Americanism

"Busch’s Catholic Right brand of American libertarianism aligns with some far-right leaders based in Italy who oppose Pope Francis and appear interested in joining forces to fashion an alternative to official Catholic leadership structures, which in this country means the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops (USCCB).

Last summer, the Napa Institute sponsored a birthday soiree at the Rome residence of Cardinal James Harvey, a far-right American cleric. There, Princess Gloria von Thurn und Taxis, a German philanthropist-turned-conservative Catholic, rubbed shoulders with American arch-traditionalist Cardinal Raymond Burke, who, according to The New York Times , “ate birthday cake in the shape of a red cardinal’s hat, held champagne in one glass and blessed seminarians with the other, and watched fireworks light up the sky in his honor.”

Princess Gloria also introduced German Cardinal Gerhard Ludwig Müller, fired by Pope Francis from his position as the church’s doctrinal watchdog, to Steve Bannon. Bannon subsequently invited Müller to Bannon’s Washington headquarters, better known as the “Breitbart Embassy,” according to The Times. All done under the watchful eye of Timothy Busch."

 

clefty

Phoron
From here will the energy of any "America First" come:

There is a battle currently underway for the conservative wing of the Catholic Church. Previously, conservatives were led by moderate conservatives. And those who were further to the right were mostly ignored in the mainstream conservative Catholic media publications. But since the election of Pope Francis, many conservatives in the pews have over-reacted to the liberal Pontiff by becoming more conservative, and by taking positions that are more extreme. As dissatisfaction with the Pope grew, the leaders on the far right played on these negative emotions to grow their support, and to gain influence in mainstream conservative outlets. Some of these leaders constantly attack the Pope and his faithful Cardinals and Bishops because they see that this gives them more supporters and more money. They realize that their complaints are popular, so they increase the severity of those complaints against the Vicar of Christ.

Over the years, I’ve watched as conservative Catholic outlets published one heretical article after another, undermining the Magisterium and replacing it with the majority opinion of the conservative Catholic subculture.


and as things collapse there will indeed be a need to build back better...a "come to Jesus"..."come home"
 

clefty

Phoron

"There is a large overlap between Catholicism and conservatism, and five areas can be distinguished. First, there is the conservative respect for tradition, that is, the Burkean assumption that any social institution in place for a great length of time and serving many people well has a claim on us. The Catholic Church has contributed an essential and distinctive element to Western civilization in art, literature, music, theology, and philosophy, and— not least—in its spreading of the Christian gospel, which had a civilizing effect on the many peoples of Europe, including those originally thought of as “barbarians.”"

yes yes...tradition...the Pope since Peter has altered prior tradition that of his Master's...and the peoples of Europe...and now insistent on reconquista here...certainly no respecter of our inalienable rights to freedom of speech, property, defense, from illegal search and seizure

"Second, there is a moral realism intrinsic to the Church’s doctrines and practices that presupposes good and evil’s actual reality and actual distinction. As the European world order collapsed during the twentieth century under the weight of total wars and totalitarian movements, good and evil were forsworn as ancient notions easily disposed of in the face of the onslaught of naked political power. The Catholic Church’s continued assertion that there exists an objective moral order thus seems salutary and providential." our constitution deals with that...and had we followed sage advise of having no entangling alliances...and yet for "common good" we intervened

"Third, there was the policy of anti-Communism, which was especially noteworthy after World War II, when the Church supported centrist or mildly leftist political parties in Italy and France in opposition to Communist political parties that had many adherents. In America in the 1950s, figures such as Bishop Sheen and Cardinal Spellman vigorously opposed Communism; a disconcerting result of Vatican II was the Church’s change from a policy of anti-Communism effectively to one of antianti-Communism." might we discuss the origins of commonism?

"Fourth, the Catholic Church provides a primary example of an institution that survives in history not because it remains static, but because it changes slowly over time, accommodating itself to new circumstances while retaining its essential identity. Thus the confusing effects of the Second Vatican Council have amounted to a seemingly radical change in the Church and sorely tested the faith of many Catholic conservatives. Alterations in the order of the Mass and the reversal of the anti-Communist policy have caused especially severe discord." ...is why a separation of Church and State is NOT your tradition...and was allowed here to accommodate your minority status...imagine this being a Protestant only country...lol

"Finally, especially appealing to intellectual conservatives is the Church’s espousal of the doctrine of natural law, which is conformable to the doctrine of natural rights found in the practice of American law and written in the Declaration of Independence, which refers to “nature’s God” as the source of rights and an implied moral order by which the actions of political agents can be fairly and rationally judged.5" yes Our Creator is the source of Rights which yours do NOT allow...and as for His "natural Law" yours applies it quite variously...and since V2 even too variously...


"These considerations do not mean that Catholicism and American conservatism are altogether compatible. The conservative tradition in America is diverse, tending especially toward the principle of personal freedom from state controls. The Catholic tradition is communitarian and family oriented, seeing the individual as embedded in a network of social connections and responsibilities ultimately of divine origin." yes yes family oriented...social networks...responsibilities...(to the poor poor and poor immigrants)

and a corporate head which demands Unam Sanctum and considers our traditions here as schismatic and heretical...and has prayers to the Queen for our conversion...consecration...(you're not alone Putin)

Elsewhere:

"We also must remember the Unam Sanctum did not say people must be "Subjects of the Pope". The Unam Sanctum said they are "subject to the Roman Pontiff." I suggest there is a subtle but perhaps an important distinction. That distinction allows Bishops to have a lot of autonomy, which is what the Orthodox Church wants. The Bishops are not "his subjects" as if he is a "king" (Christ alone is the King). But they are "subject to" him like the board members are "subject to" the Chairman of the Board."

as demonstrated by Putin's intervention now in Ukraine?...a "bored" member merely going after yet another?...

In Johns' revelations the leopard beast has the feet of a bear...the bear does not have feet of a leopard...yet another subtle but perhaps important distinction...
 
Last edited:

clefty

Phoron
This deep concern of a drift from tradition is becoming more felt in the West…

But is it now spread to the East?

Is the seat in Third Rome now empty too?



…has Putin gone too far?

More than 275 Russian Orthodox priests and deacons from around the world have signed an open letter expressing their opposition to Russia’s invasion of Ukraine, challenging the Russian government and breaking with the tacit support of the military action by church leadership in Moscow.


This protest of Putin has caused Russian Orthodoxy itself to drift from tradition:

"Stressing the value of mankind’s freedom as a God-given right, they said Ukraine ought to decide their future “on their own, not at gunpoint, without pressure from the West or the East.”


I mean do these priests protesting Putin allow JWs now?
 
Last edited:

lifetradition2

Possible NPC
Yes he is really the "Pope". But the Pope is not real christian successor of Peter. The popes list is a fake and really matches the Roman emperors list, eg Pope Pius I matches emperor Antoninus Pius in name and dates and details; Pope Alexander I matches Trajan who was identified with Alexander the Great; etc. All the first 16 popes all match the emperors from Nero to Caracalla all in order. But I guess the right could propose an alternative candidate for emperor. But how can we trust that they are not just fake "opponents" since Romans are adept at Fabian wolf in sheeps clothing etc (eg look at how they tricked christians into believing the popes are really successors of Peter).

America is much influenced by the Popes. Most of the US presidents and US presidential candidates of the last decades have had ties with Pope &/or Italy/Latin/Roman. Biden and Pence are Catholics. Same with much of the Western World regime & elite (I have pages of evidences of Rome being linked with heaps of things). Catholic means "universal". The Bible says Babylon (clearly Rome in Peter and Revelation) rides the beast and oversees global free trade and influences the kings of the earth and nations. So I don't think it is possible to take over the Catholic papacy/Vatican.

There are indications that Rome is maybe behind some nationalist groups/leaders. Interestingly the Smurfs who as followers of Papa Smurf are clearly symbolic of followers of the pope were originally called Schtrompfs which is similar to Stormtroopers and which Trump's name is related to (and Trump retracted his criticism of the Pope). (Though the Belgian creator of the Smurfs was opposed to the Nazi occupation.) The KKK admitted Catholics. Franz Frank's name is similar to pope Francis'? So I wouldn't trust anyone connected with Rome.

Thessalonians says the "Antichrist" will throw off the Restrainer (Christ/Christianity). Revelation says the beast will hate the harlot Babylon (Rome). Though Daniel says the "antichrist" will come from the 'people of the prince to come' who destroy the temple (clearly Romans).
 

clefty

Phoron
Forasmuch as you call him your Papa, he is indeed your Pope. Otherwise you would not call him 'Daddy'.

Would you call a random pimp on the street 'Daddy', even though you vituperate the inherent iniquity of his abhorrent métier, abominate all whoremasters as odious miscreants, and would never consort with criminals of any kind?

Surely you would not call such a man 'Daddy', but would speak disdainfully of him. You would employ opprobrious words to that end, not words that signify submission. If you did refer to him as daddy, even though you might speak ill of him for not being a good daddy, that alone prove that he is your daddy after all.

Since clefty refers to the man as his Papa, I am obliged to answer the question in the affirmative. He is Pope to him, and to millions of other men and women. That makes him a pope, I suppose.

He's your daddy, clefty, and you his whore.
...yet another swing and a miss
 

clefty

Phoron
more this:





and until you provide where I earnestly called him "my Papa...Daddy"...well then all this is just more of your false witness intent on slander...much like the joos did in Acts 6...and for attention seeking...which thanks for the increase of views on this thread...

those joos got attention for it too...Christians (certainly those now upset by change to their own traditions) still think He changed the customs Moses delivered to this ekklesia in the wilderness receiving its living oracles at Mt Sinai...
 
Last edited:

Macrobius

Megaphoron
Q. Is Bergoglio Really the Pope?
A. I don't know any actual Catholics who think so, unless they don't care what the Pope says, which covers a lot of cases.

I believe Orthodox generally consider the last actual pope of Rome to be what the Roman Catholics call an anti-Pope (if they are being polite) or 'Pope Joan' (if they are not). The proto-type Papessa of the Tarot deck.[1][2]

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_Joan

[2]: 'Historical' if you will: https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08428a.htm

I take [1] to be the folk history and [2] to be the court history of the same events, likely, spun of course as propaganda in the latter case. The coincidence of Canute and of the Anti-pope, along with the tag 'Anglicus' is interesting.[3] Every New World Order has its founding mythos.

[3]: Aside on the events of that period

Intent on keeping his succession secure, Cnut sent Ironside's two infant sons, Edward and Edmund Ætheling, to his brother in Sweden, where they were to be murdered. Instead, the princes were spared and sent to safety to the Kingdom of Hungary, where they remained in the care of King Stephen I. After fleeing assassins hired by Cnut, the Æthelings arrived at the royal court of Kievan Rus' in 1028. The princes remained under the tutelage of Prince Yaroslav the Wise until adulthood.

Make of that what you will. Personally, I consider it political propaganda and fake news, what the Vatican has said these last 1000 years or so.

Yaroslav the Wise approves this thread:

330px-YaroslavWiseSeal.jpg

Mack Daddies > Heretics
 
Last edited:

clefty

Phoron
Q. Is Bergoglio Really the Pope?
A. I don't know any actual Catholics who think so, unless they don't care what the Pope says, which covers a lot of cases.
well then Phora is the place for you...because here in this very thread...its OP...you can learn of Catholics who do think so...neat eh?

and these actual Catholics who think so actually care what the Pope says and how it impacts their faith since V2...

I myself IRL know quite a few who also LOVE this pope and the new understanding and application of "JUST LOVE EVERYBODY"

Holy Spirit must indeed move in mysterious ways to allow such progression and growth from prior tradition...right?

I mean Romans...hating new tradition and customs since “These men, being Jews, exceedingly trouble our city; and they teach customs which are not lawful for us, being Romans, to receive or observe.” Then the multitude rose up together against them;" Acts 16:20


I believe Orthodox generally consider the last actual pope of Rome to be what the Roman Catholics call an anti-Pope (if they are being polite) or 'Pope Joan' (if they are not). The proto-type Papessa of the Tarot deck.[1][2]

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_Joan

[2]: 'Historical' if you will: https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08428a.htm

I take [1] to be the folk history and [2] to be the court history of the same events, likely, spun of course as propaganda in the latter case. The coincidence of Canute and of the Anti-pope, along with the tag 'Anglicus' is interesting.[3] Every New World Order has its founding mythos.

[3]: Aside on the events of that period

Make of that what you will. Personally, I consider it political propaganda and fake news, what the Vatican has said these last 1000 years or so.

Yaroslav the Wise approves this thread:

View attachment 595

Mack Daddies > Heretics
ummm ok...thanks?
 

clefty

Phoron


but would Peter even recognize the keys of the kingdom he was given?...man's traditions have made changes to them which are even now more protested...

as any change to a key and it won't unlock its intended lock...
 

clefty

Phoron


but but but the Church was so against communism right?

Remember McCarthyism?

no way!! Jesuits?



yeah yeah..."not the real pope" has had more counter reformation success than 500 years prior...
 
Last edited:
Top