Protestant Foibles (Prod self-criticism thread)
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Petr
Administrator
Neither Archbishop nor King - Vox Popoli
Anglican Christians from around the world have formally rejected the Archbishop of Canterbury and the Church of England due to their convergence with Clown World. We have no confidence that the Archbishop of Canterbury nor the other Instruments of Communion led by him (the Lambeth Conference...
voxday.net
Neither Archbishop nor King
Posted on April 25, 2023 by VD
Anglican Christians from around the world have formally rejected the Archbishop of Canterbury and the Church of England due to their convergence with Clown World.
The primary rhetorical weapon used by the converged is an appeal to “unity”. But the Bible repeatedly addresses this false argument in 2 Corinthians 6:14-15.
Bear not the yoke with unbelievers. For what participation hath justice with injustice? Or what fellowship hath light with darkness? And what concord hath Christ with Belial? Or what part hath the faithful with the unbeliever?
There can be no unity with Clown World or its demonic clowns. If anyone attempts to converge your organization, kick them out without hesitation or remorse. And if your organization is converged, don’t hesitate to leave it without delay or explanation.
Lord Osmund de Ixabert
I X A B E R T.com
Let's encircle the convoluted milieu of Protestant incongruities
R Crowley the White
Megaphoron
Where these people live and given their SES, they probably have little direct experience and only know Jews as comic book heroes on Fox News.
I don't think these kinds of doormat Christians care that Jews despise them. I remember one Christmas Eve the IDF lobbed ordnance into the courtyard of the Church of the Nativity without a peep of protest from American Christians. The Church of the Nativity is in the West Bank of which ongoing conflict provided cover for the Christmas Eve outrage. There is a concept of pride of race which many Whites have had beaten out of them and likewise there seems to be a lack of pride of religion when it comes to abuse by sectarian Jews.
I don't think these kinds of doormat Christians care that Jews despise them. I remember one Christmas Eve the IDF lobbed ordnance into the courtyard of the Church of the Nativity without a peep of protest from American Christians. The Church of the Nativity is in the West Bank of which ongoing conflict provided cover for the Christmas Eve outrage. There is a concept of pride of race which many Whites have had beaten out of them and likewise there seems to be a lack of pride of religion when it comes to abuse by sectarian Jews.
Petr
Administrator
Alas, those were just Roman Catholic or Eastern Orthodox Christians that were being maltreated by the Israelis, and many Evangelicals do not care much what happens to them. Many of them may even think they are idolaters who are getting what they deserve (I do not necessarily share this sentiment).
Dr. Alan James 2.0
Megaphoron
Clefty trigger word....tread gently Petr....
Although your point is absolutely correct, I urge you caution when heading down this perilous road...
R Crowley the White
Megaphoron
But maybe you do? Prots, the worst. What makes one an idolater? Mary?
R Crowley the White
Megaphoron
There is a little nunnery I drive past with a charming statue of Mary and praying nuns which always gives me a warm feeling, even though I am not a Christian. So far as I am concerned, which isnt very when it comes to things Christian, the nuns make Catholicism. The priests have disgraced themselves but the humble nuns are different. I remember when I was a homeless drug addict for a couple years one of the places we ate was in a disused firehouse down by the bay, where we would be fed fish stew and bread by these great nuns. It was such a joy to go there one time every week.
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Petr
Administrator
Intra-Christian squabbles can get ugly. The medieval Paulicians, who are seen by many as some sort of proto-Protestants, rose up in revolt, embittered by their persecutions, and used the churches of Orthodox Christians as stables:
While Byzantine Christians themselves showed short-sighted and petty vindictiveness towards Monophysite Armenians when they had been overrun by the Muslim Seljuk Turks - not realizing that the same enemy would soon descend upon their own heads:
Chapter 54 of 'The Decline And Fall Of The Roman Empire'
Chapter 54 of 'The History Of The Decline And Fall Of The Roman Empire'- Origin and Doctrine of the Paulicians; The Reformation
ccel.org
While Byzantine Christians themselves showed short-sighted and petty vindictiveness towards Monophysite Armenians when they had been overrun by the Muslim Seljuk Turks - not realizing that the same enemy would soon descend upon their own heads:
Chapter 57: The Decline And Fall Of The Roman Empire
Chapter 57 of 'The History Of The Decline And Fall Of The Roman Empire'; The Turks of the House of Seljuk
ccel.org
R Crowley the White
Megaphoron
Yes, we are aware of inter-Christian conflict but what has this to with you maybe thinking the Church of the Nativity got what it deserved at the hands of the IDF ?
Petr
Administrator
I am not siding with the Israelis. Again you are being overly paranoid.
R Crowley the White
Megaphoron
Petr: "Many of them may even think they are idolaters who are getting what they deserve (I do not necessarily share this sentiment)."
R Crowley the White
Megaphoron
One would think Petr would have no doubt about the Church of the Nativity NOT deserving being bombed on Christmas Eve. Really.
Petr
Administrator
Look, a pious Protestant like me simply cannot approve of everything that goes on in RC or EO churches. That is why I chose my words carefully. But that does not mean I would believe that Muslims, Jews or Communists (or overly zealous Prods for that matter) could mutilate and deface those buildings as much as they would like.
Petr
Administrator
Like it or not, certain kind of aggressive "iconoclasm" has always been part of Christianity, even among the most "pro-image" ones like the RCs - as the German Völkisch writer Felix Dahn depicted in this poem:
Gedichte
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www.projekt-gutenberg.org
Nun war der Tag gekommen,
Das Volk stand ringst zu Hauf',
Der Holzstoß, hell entglommen,
Er lohte stets höher auf.
Denn es schleuderten in die Flammen
Die Mönche manch' Götterbild,
Mit Schalen und Kesseln zusammen
Und runenbedecktem Schild.
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clefty
Phoron
The way I live rent free in some heads...it's free rent sure... but the neighborhood and view...lol
And then Pete goes on to show that indeed I am not alone in pointing out that it is actually His Spirit which makes material Holy...
As even Israel prayed to the Bronze Serpent He commanded to be made...but...since His Spirit long departed it...it was no longer Holy and worthy of prayers...and had to be destroyed as an Idol..."but but but He said to make it"...
So yeah go ahead mock and jeer and keep wasting money and energy fighting and dying over "holy ground" despite His Spirit having departed since before the Second Temple was destroyed...a temple which had an empty holy of holies...imagine that...
Bardamu also offered:
"There is a little nunnery I drive past with a charming statue of Mary and praying nuns which always gives me a warm feeling, even though I am not a Christian"
You don't think He knows about "warm feelings" and the comfort it would have brought had He just poised for a Greek artisan to make a bust of Him?...or full statue?
or even better...
He could have made a mountain of evidence and proofs of His being here for His followers to view handle and kiss...Imagine the warm feelings of hundreds of worshippers at that Holy mountain...stones on which He wrote "Here I stood to preach"...
so far away in both place and time from the other mountain on which He thundered "make no image...nor similitude...of anything...and do not bow down or serve any made"....
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Dr. Alan James 2.0
Megaphoron
I could care less about any of your views. With you, it's about the lulz and nothing else.
Gawn Chippin
Arachnocronymic Metaphoron
One can only react to provocation with despicable emotions. At most, Jews can instead only react to Doormat Christians with derision and redicule
Petr
Administrator
The basest and most hypocritical kind of "iconoclasm" is when you simply covet the precious metals that the images or idols are made of. That way you make God's commandment a pretext for your own greed (but covetousness itself is idolatry).
Apostle Paul condemned this kind of specious Jewish zeal (but Muslims, too, have undoubtedly found some extra enthusiasm in their anti-idolatry campaigns in the prospect of plundering the goods of the infidels):
The stereotype of a stingy, anti-social misanthrope - Christians acting like Jews, one could say:
Apostle Paul condemned this kind of specious Jewish zeal (but Muslims, too, have undoubtedly found some extra enthusiasm in their anti-idolatry campaigns in the prospect of plundering the goods of the infidels):
Romans 2:22 - The Jews and the Law
You who forbid adultery, do you commit adultery? You who abhor idols, do you rob temples?
biblehub.com
Inasmuch, however, as definite malpractices of the Jews at that time, on account of which the name of God was blasphemed among the Gentiles (ver. 24), seem to be here alluded to, the word may, perhaps more probably, be understood in its proper sense of plundering temples, meaning heathen temples - a practice which Jewish zealots, in their professed abhorrence of idolatry, might be addicted to when they had opportunity. A writer, though himself attaching no idea of sanctity to such temples, might still use the current term ἱεροσυλεῖν. So, among the ancients, Chrysostom and Theophylact understand it; the latter, however, limiting it to taking away the ἀναθήματα. He says, "For if they did abhor the idols, yet nevertheless, dominated by covetousness, they touched the idol-offerings for filthy lucre's sake." In doing this, he seems to imply, they broke the very Law which had enjoined their ancestors to "destroy the altars, and break down the images" of idolaters (Deuteronomy 7:5); for the same Law had forbidden them to "desire the silver and gold that is on them," or "take it unto thee, for it is an abomination to the Lord thy God" (Deuteronomy 7:25).
The enemies of the Puritans, like Charles Dickens even, often accused them of being sanctimonious money-grubbers (who eventually produced such "secularized puritan" types as Ebenezer Scrooge), weighing so heavily against any kind of formal idolatry but succumbing to the idolatry of greed.The stereotype of a stingy, anti-social misanthrope - Christians acting like Jews, one could say:
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clefty
Phoron
Alas it didn't even help doubling up the "don't covet" commandment...
"9. You shall not covet your neighbor’s wife.
10. You shall not covet your neighbor’s goods."
And ironically this was to keep it 10 since "2. Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image." is ignored when listed...but assumed...implied?...
Colossians 3:5 "Put to death, therefore, the components of your earthly nature: sexual immorality, impurity, lust, evil desires, and greed, which is idolatry. 6Because of these, the wrath of God is coming on
changed it to make your claim...just kiddin' ...
Paul was writing the gentiles of Colossae who now believed and were to live as da believing joos...
7When you lived among them, you also used to walk in these ways. 8But now you must put aside all such things as these: anger, rage, malice, slander, and filthy language from your lips. 9Do not lie to one another, since you have taken off the old self with its practices, 10and have put on the new self, which is being renewed in knowledge in the image of its Creator. 11Here there is no Greek or Jew, circumcised or uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave, or free, but Christ is all and is in all."
Romans 2:22 - The Jews and the Law
You who forbid adultery, do you commit adultery? You who abhor idols, do you rob temples?biblehub.com
Inasmuch, however, as definite malpractices of the Jews at that time, on account of which the name of God was blasphemed among the Gentiles (ver. 24), seem to be here alluded to, the word may, perhaps more probably, be understood in its proper sense of plundering temples, meaning heathen temples - a practice which Jewish zealots, in their professed abhorrence of idolatry, might be addicted to when they had opportunity. A writer, though himself attaching no idea of sanctity to such temples, might still use the current term ἱεροσυλεῖν. So, among the ancients, Chrysostom and Theophylact understand it; the latter, however, limiting it to taking away the ἀναθήματα. He says, "For if they did abhor the idols, yet nevertheless, dominated by covetousness, they touched the idol-offerings for filthy lucre's sake." In doing this, he seems to imply, they broke the very Law which had enjoined their ancestors to "destroy the altars, and break down the images" of idolaters (Deuteronomy 7:5); for the same Law had forbidden them to "desire the silver and gold that is on them," or "take it unto thee, for it is an abomination to the Lord thy God" (Deuteronomy 7:25).
"It has been objected against this view that there is a lack of recorded instances of such temple-plundering on the part of Jews, and that they could not have had much chance, as things then were, of thus displaying their zeal. But there may have been instances, notorious at the time, though not recorded; and, if so, the drift may be, "Thou displayest thy abhorrence of idolatry, enjoined by the Law, by acts of violence and greed, such as the very Law forbids." ibid
But yeah keep accusing joos of robbing heathen temples during this time despite
Acts 19: 37For you have brought these men here, though they have neither robbed our temple nor blasphemed our goddess. 38 if Demetrius and his fellow craftsmen have a complaint against anyone, the courts are open and proconsuls are available. Let them bring charges against one another there. 39But if you are seeking anything beyond this, it must be settled in a legal assembly.
maybe "there is a lack of recorded instances of such temple-plundering on the part of Jews" is because joos were too sneaky to bring to the courts?
oh sure one could say that...but "9Do not lie to one another, since you have taken off the old self with its practices,"
All this distraction to miss the precious jewels Paul does offer the Romans:
Romans 2:17 "Indeed you are called a Jew, and rest on the law, and make your boast in God, 18 and know His will, and approve the things that are excellent, being instructed out of the law, 19 and are confident that you yourself are a guide to the blind, a light to those who are in darkness, 20 an instructor of the foolish, a teacher of babes, having the form of knowledge and truth in the law. 21 You, therefore, who teach another, do you not teach yourself? You who preach that a man should not steal, do you steal? 22 You who say, “Do not commit adultery,” do you commit adultery? You who abhor idols, do you rob temples? (edit: the answer of course is no.) 23 You who make your boast in the law, do you dishonor God through breaking the law? 24 For “the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles because of you,” as it is written. 25 For circumcision is indeed profitable if you keep the law; but if you are a breaker of the law, your circumcision has become uncircumcision. 26 Therefore, if an uncircumcised man keeps the righteous requirements of the law, will not his uncircumcision be counted as circumcision? 27 And will not the physically uncircumcised, if he fulfills the law, judge you who, even with your [f]written code and circumcision, are a transgressor of the law? 28 For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh; 29 but he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the Spirit, not in the letter; whose praise is not from men but from God."