“Application of the natural law varies greatly...”

clefty

Phoron


The way forward continues to cause concern as more and more regret this: "CCC #1957 Application of the natural law varies greatly; it can demand reflection that takes account of various conditions of life according to places, times, and circumstances. Nevertheless, in the diversity of cultures..."

Protests by protesters will only increase for yet another REFORM... and to the old ways...to the orthodoxy...to the Latin tradition...

But not to His culture...His tradition...His ways

that's way TOO far back...
 

clefty

Phoron

“KYIV, Ukraine (AP) — Ukraine's President Volodymyr Zelenskyy on Friday signed a law moving the official Christmas Day holiday to Dec. 25 from Jan. 7, the day when the Russian Orthodox Church observes it.

The explanatory note attached to the law said its goal is to “abandon the Russian heritage,” including that of “imposing the celebration of Christmas” on Jan. 7, and cited Ukrainians' “relentless, successful struggle for their identity” and “the desire of all Ukrainians to live their lives with their own traditions, holidays,” fueled by Russia's 17-month-old aggression against the country.”

Ok…

it’s official…new applications… new traditions…

…changing times and law…

to join the masses…
 

clefty

Phoron
And what about the digital world?

How is His Law/His Way applied in the digital realm?



…the power of images yo
 

clefty

Phoron
Macrobius put this in the Shout Box...thought it appropriate here...


I. That law, the book of which we are neither able nor worthy to open. Of this law, the author and observer is God. He is a law to himself, as well as to all created things. This law we may name the “law eternal.”

II. That law, which is made for angels and the spirits of the just made perfect. This may be called the “law celestial.” This law, and the glorious state for which it is adapted, we see, at present, but darkly and as through a glass: but hereafter we shall see even as we are seen; and shall know even as we are known. From the wisdom and the goodness of the adorable Author and Preserver of the universe, we are justified in concluding, that the celestial and perfect state is governed, as all other things are, by his established laws. What those laws are, it is not yet given us to know; but on one truth we may rely with sure and certain confidence—those laws are wise and good. For another truth we have infallible authority—those laws are strictly obeyed: “In heaven his will is done.”

And it is to be "on earth as it is in heaven"

as He taught us to pray...

"Laws may be promulgated by reason and conscience, the divine monitors within us. They are thus known as effectually, as by words or by writing: indeed they are thus known in a manner more noble and exalted. For, in this manner, they may be said to be engraven by God on the hearts of men: in this manner, he is the promulgator as well as the author of natural law."

Looking around it would seem He engraves on the hearts of men a wide variance of laws...

wonder if the hearts are circumcised...or not
 
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clefty

Phoron


Change is the tradition…even to the chagrin now of those opposed to the V2…

Just as they changed a day to be less offensive as it was “too jooish” for the new branches grafted into the trunk and root…

“They [the Catholics] allege the Sabbath changed into Sunday, the Lord's day, contrary to the Decalogue, as it appears, neither is there any example more boasted of than the changing of the Sabbath day. Great, say they, is the power and authority of the church, since it dispensed with one of the Ten Commandments.
—Augsburg Confession of Faith, Art. 28, par. 9.
 

clefty

Phoron


Hmmm yes about that “LOVE…AS I LOVED YOU”

looking around at this tradition of this “deposit of the faith” I don’t see much AS He loved us…

I guess you see some changes too?
 

clefty

Phoron
Here we see change of His times and not just His Laws…

And then even more changes…

“The Decree of Gratian (about 1150) mentions forty-one feasts besides the diocesan patronal celebrations; the Decretals of Gregory IX (about 1233) mention forty-five public feasts and Holy Days, which means eighty-five days when no work could be done and ninety-five days when no court sessions could be held. In many provinces eight days after Easter, in some also the week after Pentecost (or at least four days), had the sabbath rest. From the thirteenth to the eighteenth century there were dioceses in which the Holy Days and Sundays amounted to over one hundred, not counting the feasts of particular monasteries and churches. In the Byzantine empire there were sixty-six entire Holy Days (Constitution of Manuel Comnenus, in 1166), exclusive of Sundays, and twenty-seven half Holy Days. In the fifteenth century, Gerson, Nicolas de Clémanges and others protested against the multiplication of feasts, as an oppression of the poor, and proximate occasions of excesses. The long needed reduction of feast days was made by Urban VIII(Universa per orbem, 13 Sept., 1642). There remained thirty-six feasts or eighty-five days free from labour. Pope Urban limited the right of the bishops to establish new Holy Days; this right is now not abrogated, but antiquated…

By the French revolution the ecclesiasticalcalendar had been radically abolished, and at the reorganization of the French Church, in 1806, only four feasts were retained: Christmas, the Ascension, the Assumption, and All Saints; the other feasts were transferred to Sunday. This reduction was valid also in Belgium and in Germany on the left bank of the Rhine. For the Catholics in England Pius VI (19 March, 1777) established the following lists of feasts: Easter and Pentecost two days each, Christmas, New Year's Day, Epiphany, Ascension, Corpus Christi, Annunciation, Assumption, Sts. Peter and Paul, St. George, and All Saints. After the restoration of the hierarchy (1850), the Annunciation, St. George, and the Monday after Easter and Pentecost were abolished. Scotland keeps also the feast of St. Andrew, Ireland the feasts of St. Patrick and the Annunciation.


His calendar has 73 days off a year…7 festivals
 
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clefty

Phoron

Clothing and gender expression - Deuteronomy 22:5​

Deuteronomy 22:5, “A woman shall not wear a man’s apparel, nor shall a man put on a woman’s garment; for whoever does such things is abhorrent to the LORD your God,” (NRSV) is the only verse in all of Scripture that directly references gender-based notions of clothing. While in many cases transgender people are not in fact “cross-dressing” (a term that implies one is crossing their gender identity rather than confirming it), but instead are affirming and reflecting their gender identity through the clothes they wear. This verse has still served as a stumbling block for enough Christians to warrant some exploration. Both affirming and non-affirming biblical scholars have a range of views on why this prohibition was written for its original audience. Some are convinced that forbidding the Hebrew people from dressing in clothes associated with a gender different than their own was a way to be set apart from Canaanite and Syrian religion where this phenomena was a part of certain worship rituals. Other scholars believe the prohibition was more of a way to reinforce previous instructions from the Torah that forbid “mixing” (for example, not blending fabrics, planting variations of seed or eating shellfish), given the way Israel’s national purity and their maintenance of rigid categorical differences were bound together. A third perspective is that Deuteronomy 22:5 was written to keep a gender-segregated society truly segregated. This would prevent things like men and women engaging in various forms of forbidden sexual contact, women from entering the temple, men evading military service, women signing up for military service and other behaviors perceived as contrary to the boundaries between the distinct parts of God’s created order.

Beyond understanding why this verse was originally penned, a more pressing question for Christians to ask is whether or not we are supposed to follow the prohibitions present throughout all of Deuteronomy. The answer for most Christians today would be no, on account of the theological conviction that Jesus, through his life and death, has fulfilled the requirements of the laws Moses presented at Mt. Sinai in the story of Exodus and because they do not believe that maintaining the integrity of God’s creation prohibits mixing. In fact, the incarnation of God as Jesus, the mixing of the fully divine and the fully human, is often viewed as the necessary context for humanity’s salvation altogether. Christians who maintain non-affirming perspectives on transgender and non-binary people must ask themselves why it is that this command is being upheld when they believe that most, if not all, of the other directives around it have been nullified."

So just because He became incarnate He nullified not only the "make no images" commandment but the "don't be gay" one?


"Hartke, who's also the author of Transforming: The Bible and the Lives of Transgender Christians, says, "In the same way that if God made somebody nearsighted, they're allowed to get glasses." He says it's part of Jesus's call to abundant life. It's not desecration; it's co-creation. Holy work. Yes, our bodies are temples," Hartke says. "But temples change." And Hartke says the blueprint for that change is in the text."Even though Genesis One talks about binaries in the world, we know that those binaries aren't as clean cut as they are in this one piece of writing." It's not just man and woman, land and water. "So for instance," he says, "God creates the day and the night — it says nothing about dawn or dusk."
But these in-between places exist. Hartke says there's a richness to them and to the theology that emerges from them. Because they tell a fuller story of existence in this holy world."If we say God is the alpha and the omega, we don't mean God is just A and Z," Hartke says. "We mean God is all."



Gen 1:5 "And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day."

(da joos of course even mess this sequence up...claiming evening begins the day...BUT clearly the day was created and named first and then the evening came...and then the morning...and then the completed day counted-day ONE)


“Before, the church was closed to us. They didn’t see us as normal people, they saw us as the devil,” said Andrea Paola Torres Lopez, a Colombian transgender woman known as Consuelo, whose kitchen is decorated with pictures of Jesus. “Then Pope Francis arrived and the doors of the church opened for us.”


"CCC #1957 Application of the natural law varies greatly; it can demand reflection that takes account of various conditions of life according to places, times, and circumstances. Nevertheless, in the diversity of cultures..."

indeed...
 

clefty

Phoron
Bishop Williamson:

10:37
to go into the question is it true is is what the holocaust
10:42
is meant to represent is it what is meant to stand for is what it means is it true or not is it historically true
10:50
or was it not historically true nobody goes into that question and that is what you say is very true
10:57
if the church of the catholic church refuses to take stand on truth
11:03
it's powerless truth is the great power of the church it's his great strength
11:09
and if the church says we don't want we we don't want to know the truth we aren't interested in
11:14
the truth forget about the truth the historical truth the reality truth then the church is destroying itself the
11:21
church is committing suicide
...
namely the church is is refusing to stand on truth and then the other thing that another
11:39
fatal thing of course is that a lot of catholics come to the point of saying oh that that's not our fight we're
11:47
spiritual we're not historic we're not into history we're not into the past
11:53
we're not into politics we're into spirituality and that's another deadly
11:59
deadly recipe for the church it's a deadly stand for the church to take the church can't take that stand history is
12:06
the church's business right the earth the reality what mankind is doing
12:11
what it thinks is doing what it means to be doing and what it does in history is very much the church's business it's
12:18
almighty god's business it's the business of the ten commandments it's the business of the church and for the
12:24
church to say we're not interested in politics it's deadly right we're interested in truth we're
12:29
not interested in politics we're not interested in the truth in politics it's fatal for the church but the church is
12:35
going soft




Well Dick...we see in this thread how varied a "10 commandments business" the Church is running...

no surprise then that Western man continues to have to buy down his punishment for an alleged crime which yours is an accomplice to...

and by continuing to HIDE documents which could absolve the Germans of it

"who benefits" from this guilt racket?...the question sounds better in Latin...

as if it's the German's fault the Vatican continues to hide evidence...

I won't address here (as the video does) the Church's use and protection of "da joo" as per its vaunted tradition...

and for its counter reformation...
 

clefty

Phoron
And now we come to the issue of the varied application not of His Law...but even merely of a blessing:


"39. In any case, precisely to avoid any form of confusion or scandal, when the prayer of blessing is requested by a couple in an irregular situation, even though it is expressed outside the rites prescribed by the liturgical books, this blessing should never be imparted in concurrence with the ceremonies of a civil union, and not even in connection with them. Nor can it be performed with any clothing, gestures, or words that are proper to a wedding. The same applies when the blessing is requested by a same-sex couple.

40. Such a blessing may instead find its place in other contexts, such as a visit to a shrine, a meeting with a priest, a prayer recited in a group, or during a pilgrimage. Indeed, through these blessings that are given not through the ritual forms proper to the liturgy but as an expression of the Church’s maternal heart—similar to those that emanate from the core of popular piety—there is no intention to legitimize anything, but rather to open one’s life to God, to ask for his help to live better, and also to invoke the Holy Spirit so that the values of the Gospel may be lived with greater faithfulness."

So its more of a "bless me father for I have NOT sinned" and without penance or contrition...

Applying a blessing on a couple who have NO intention to "go and sin no more" is going to bring sinners closer to "love as I have loved you"?

Is the absolution implied then?

"God the Father of mercies, through the death and resurrection of his Son has reconciled the world to himself and sent the Holy Spirit among us for the forgiveness of sins; through the ministry of the Church may God give you pardon and peace, and I absolve you from your sins in the name of the Father, and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. Amen."

A blessing is like an oath or not taking His name in vain...more like:

Luke 11:27And it came to pass, as he spake these things, a certain woman of the company lifted up her voice, and said unto him, Blessed is the womb that bare thee, and the paps which thou hast sucked. 28 But he said, Yea rather, blessed are they that hear the word of God, and keep it.
 

clefty

Phoron


Poor guys lamenting there is less Holy in this modern age...the logical end to the tradition of change.

No surprise here as His Law is being applied so variously that not even His day is kept Holy.
 
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