What Exactly Happened on Holy Sabbath Day

Macrobius

Megaphoron
Screenshot 2022-09-07 7.52.01 AM.png

clefty was asserting that the 'Harrowing of Hell' didn't happen and that on 'the Sabbath' he backed off and said that Jesus 'rested' on that day, and then he was Resurrected.

Sorry, saints of God.

The start of this conversation was that 'All Hallows Eve' was some sort of distraction from All Saints... presumably important then?

I don't get it... I really don't.

Wut?

Partial answer:

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Now I'm *really* confused about what you believe. I thought biblical days started at sunset.
 
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Macrobius

Megaphoron
Anyway, actual Christians, including certainly Protestants, Western Catholics, and Eastern Orthodox, have a doctrine about how something called 'The Harrowing of Hell' happened on Holy Saturday / Holy Sabbath Day.

The theological question here (about Halloween) is whether anything at all similar to this icon actually happened on Holy Saturday, that would 'set up' an All Saints scenario being important.

Pic is of Adam and Eve being rescued from Hell (if not bodily, at least their souls from suffering) as a result of the CRUCIFIXION (Resurrection indeed yet to come)

WhZDiSSAlP5dN21SRuED_07_188783907ead758387f946038ec386f7_image.png


All Saints:
allsaints.jpg

Having some beef about All Hallows' Eve (but not All Hallows itself), Satin's Owned Holiday, yet not believing the Harrowing of Hell ever happened, seems a bizarre doctrine to me.

Explain, please?

American Religious Sensibilities are like, endlessly entertaining.
 
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Macrobius

Megaphoron
So... topic of this thread... Harrowing of Hell... Fact or Fiction?

Whenever it might have happened. No hangups about dating or timing here. Happened or did not.

If the Harrowing of Hell happened, but not on the Sabbath because Jesus took a gameplay timeout that day, fine. Do tell. In detail pleaz.

Citation needed:

Screenshot 2022-09-07 8.35.28 AM.png

Inquiring coaches want to Noh.

Choose wisely.
 
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Nikephoros II Phokas

Administrator
Staff member
To start with Clefty's ideas about the Harrowing of Hell are inseparable from his Annihilationism. Of course, the Harrowing of Hell can't happen if there is no Hell or Hades. As if all the talk of everlasting damnation and lakes of fire are Christ bullshitting everybody. Wouldn't resurrecting yourself on the Sabbath count as work for Judaizer purposes? If so then clefty's chronology still isn't consistent with his beliefs.
 
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clefty

Phoron
View attachment 373

clefty was asserting that the 'Harrowing of Hell' didn't happen and that on 'the Sabbath' he backed off and said that Jesus 'rested' on that day, and then he was Resurrected.

Sorry, saints of God.

The start of this conversation was that 'All Hallows Eve' was some sort of distraction from All Saints... presumably important then?

I don't get it... I really don't.

Wut?

Partial answer:

ATTACH]
View attachment 375

Now I'm *really* confused about what you believe. I thought biblical days started at sunset.
you asked if I celebrate guy fawkes or halloween...I was speaking to halloween and by that I mean halloween as in the parties the candy the dressing up as Protestants do here and don't call it or celebrate it as "all hallows eve".

No need to apology for your own confusion...I was clear on speaking to halloween distracting (especially protestants) from Luther's nailing the 95 thesis on the door...complaints the church actually complied with...eventually

You might think biblical days started at sunset...but might I recommend you study for yourself and not just go along with wut da joo says today...I mean He didn't go along to get along with them right?
 
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Lord Osmund de Ixabert

I X A B E R T.com
As if all the talk of everlasting damnation and lakes of fire are Christ bullshitting everybody.
An astonishing claim. "All that talk" implies that Jesus talked about it a lot. True, he spoke of hell some seventy times; but unless I remember amiss, he never spoke of Hell as a place of everlasting torment that goes on for ever and aye. That indeed were an absurdity; for only God is eternal.

Where pray tell did Christ endors the view that departed souls go to an everlasting hell (or an everlasting paradise for that matter)?

If he spake so frequently thereof, then of a surety you couldst produce a few quotations from him wherein he teaches such doctrine.

Not that I necessarily deny such a doctrine; I only doubt that Jesus taught it, as I have yet to come across a passage in the Bible in which Jesus spoke of such a thing, unless you are referring to the passages in which the word for unquenchable is mistranslated as 'everlasting' or 'eternal'; yet the same book speaks of the "eternal fire" that was sent as punishment to the people of Sodom and Gomorrah--and adds that said fire was later extinguished. So it is clear that the word for 'eternal' or 'everlasting' as used in the Bible does not mean what many people assume it means.
 
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Macrobius

Megaphoron
'Gehenna' and 'Hades' were commonly accepted terms in Hellenistic Greek, and well understood in Pharisee circles of the time, as also among Alexandrian Greek-speaking Jews of the Diaspora (like, say, St Paul, who had a foot in both camps)

I've probably mentioned 'my lawn' 70 times at the Phora, and NEVER ONCE DEFINED WHAT I MEANT.
 

Macrobius

Megaphoron
you asked if I celebrate guy fawkes or halloween...I was speaking to halloween and by that I mean halloween as in the parties the candy the dressing up as Protestants do here and don't call it or celebrate it as "all hallows eve".

No need to apology for your own confusion...I was clear on speaking to halloween distracting (especially protestants) from Luther's nailing the 95 thesis on the door...complaints the church actually complied with...eventually

You might think biblical days started at sunset...but might I recommend you study for yourself and not just go along with wut da joo says today...I mean He didn't go along to get along with them right?

This is not a thread about Halloween... this is a thread about:

Screenshot 2022-09-07 3.25.40 PM.png

Nike pointed out your relevant doctrine I think. That was informative about your sect.

Lots of weasel words and NT-as-Chewbacca-Puppet Theology, hiding the Judaizing is my impression so far.

What do dead Jews do when dead, @clefty? Same as dead infidels?
 

Lord Osmund de Ixabert

I X A B E R T.com
'Gehenna' and 'Hades' were commonly accepted terms in Hellenistic Greek, and well understood in Pharisee circles of the time.​
Correct, and that's one point that greatly supports my argument. I was just about to mention it myself, for that very reason.

My argument is not for denying any particular doctrine about Hell - were I desirous of making such an argument, I would appeal to certain metaphysical and theological principles of an axiomatic nature, rather than the authority of the Bible; for as regards the duration of the punishment (of hell, i.e.), the Bible does not take an explicit stance one way or the other, though it is evident from a great many OT passages that a finite conception of hell is presupposed throughout all the books of the Bible that make allusion thereto. A viewpoint that is in agreement with Judaism, ancient and modern; for the Jews do not subscribe to the Christian concept of eternal damnation in hell. They regard it as a finite place with a physical location on earth. The same view is also in perfect accord with the linguistic evidences, taking into account the history and meaning of the term 'Hades' and the equivalent Hebraic terms (for there are several of them in the Hebrew language, each having very different meanings, yet all of them rather misleadingly translated into English by the same word 'hell').

So do not construe my argument as a denial of the doctrine of an eternal hell. My argument is rather a justification for doubting that Jesus taught this particular doctrine about Hell, to wit, that it is a place of never-ending torment and suffering, whereto people are sent by Deity as a punishment for the transgressions they committed in this world. There is simply no evidence of Jesus teaching any such doctrine to anyone; nor is there any rational ground for supposing that he taught it by way of implication; for the meanings of the corresponding terms in Aramaic and Hebrew, as well as the Hellenistic Greek and Hebraic mythological conceptionals of hell, did not originate in any doctrine of eternal damnation, nor had they any particular association therewith; on the contrary for both the hebrews and the greeks, hell was thougt to have a physical location and to be of finite duration.

The doctrine of an eternal hell as we now understand it was for most part a later Roman Catholic formulation;--seemingly based on a mistranslation of the Hebrew word for unquenchable as as "everlasting". It was a quite foreign conception to christians, at any rate for the first couple of hundred years of their existence.

Like the Celtic pagan doctrine of purgatory, the concept of an eternal hell is of extrabiblical origin; which is not an argument against the potential truth of that doctrine; for it is my opinion that Purgatory, for instance, as one of several doctrines that the pagans got right, ; and so it was a wise decision on the part of the Roman Catholic Church to incorporate such pagan ideas into its body of thought. Unfortunately for Christendom, many falsehoods of pagan origin also became the official doctrine of christianity, along with the pagan truths--in both cases due to the same pagan influences, rather than any Biblical influences.

Moreover, the foreformentioned conception of hell is obviously not based on the Greek notion of Hades; for the Greeks never conceived of Hades as a place to which men are sent as a punishment for their sins, nor indeed was it ever considered a place of pure suffering, nor the sole place to which a person might be sent after death as a punishment; nor was it considered everlasting. Hades was merely a subterraneous realm, and had no especial association with punishment, damnation, the devil, or evil.

Elsewise how is it that Persephone, daughter of Demeter the earth-goddess, could leave Hades six months of every year, and tho' she would fain have spent all her time upon the earth she nonetheless found in the infernal realm many things that brought her joy and happiness, such as to extinguish any torment or suffering to which she might otherwise've been inclined. Such conception of Hell or Hades does but further support my argument. Another linguistic consideration that accords with my point of view is, of course, the origin and etymological meaning of the English word 'hell', which was thought a fit translation of the equivalent hebraic and greek notions.​
 
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clefty

Phoron
This is not a thread about Halloween...
Not about Halloween? well ok...your thread...but you did:

"The start of this conversation was that 'All Hallows Eve' was some sort of distraction from All Saints... presumably important then?
I don't get it... I really don't.
Wut?"

so I thought to be polite and address some points to give CLARITY and answer you...maybe provide some context...I mean you did want or?

But maybe context is not so important to you? I'm starting to think maybe not...

View attachment 378

Nike pointed out your relevant doctrine I think. That was informative about your sect.

Glad you think Nike helped...is good to have a council or two...

Might I just add it's not a sect but standard belief of most Torah believers...until hellenized joos became more sophisticated and cosmopolitan with quick retorts and zingers...lol...some joos even accept reincarnation now...

But you know idolators their chutzpah...
Lots of weasel words and NT-as-Chewbacca-Puppet Theology, hiding the Judaizing is my impression so far.

LOL...you are fun...

(please remind me to eventually start my own thread on what joodaizing is...as typically what was given to joos at Sinai was NOT just given to da joos ALONE but to ALL of Israel...and at that time already this ekklesia in the wilderness was full of those NOT of Jacob even...but believing Egyptians...having seen a new God's power...)

And so more than just da joos did NOT believe in an afterlife of eternal tormenting...but ALL of Israel...neat eh?
What do dead Jews do when dead, @clefty? Same as dead infidels?
yup pretty much...Lazarus was described as sleeping but He clarified "He is dead'...not in paradise or hell...

So Adam and Eve are rescued from Hell and in this case both bodily AND soul from suffering...

...and sleeping until resurrection day and final judgement day...the Day of the Lord...

Some to everlasting life and some to everlasting abhorrence...and by those living...as the dead know nothing...
 

clefty

Phoron
To start with Clefty's ideas about the Harrowing of Hell are inseparable from his Annihilationism. Of course, the Harrowing of Hell can't happen if there is no Hell or Hades.

Bingo. But fear of Hell is still useful as a teaching aid as even kids are often spooked to sleep by the parent's claim "or the monster will get you"
As if all the talk of everlasting damnation and lakes of fire are Christ bullshitting everybody.
Yeah maybe...I mean were all of His parables documentaries with times places and names of those involved?

How about other teaching aides like "I am the Vine" or "Door" or "living water"...I'm sure people expected to pick grapes off Him...unlock Him...or have their cups filled?

Feel free to thinks He's B.S.ing if you must...harsh...but I'm not going to look for grave preparing zombies...expecting the dead to be burying dead...ya dig?

Wouldn't resurrecting yourself on the Sabbath count as work for Judaizer purposes? If so then clefty's chronology still isn't consistent with his beliefs.
How many times did He heal on the Sabbath to confirm that His Sabbath REFRESHES...as it has since creation when it was made for man...

How many of these Sabbath healing were emergencies? or could they have easily waited until the next day?...or when the pharisees weren't trying to trap Him?

But for you...you stand with the Pharisees..."is it unlawful to do good on the Sabbath"...you: "yes yes it's WORK"

For you it's: ox out of a ditch > Saviour out of the tomb... cuz even the pharisees would allow helping an ox out of the ditch...

BTW it's SEVEN...7 times He healed on the Sabbath to confirm and foreshadow its healing power...
 
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clefty

Phoron
'Gehenna' and 'Hades' were commonly accepted terms in Hellenistic Greek, and well understood in Pharisee circles of the time, as also among Alexandrian Greek-speaking Jews of the Diaspora (like, say, St Paul, who had a foot in both camps)

Two camps reminds me:

Acts 23: 6Then Paul, knowing that some of them were Sadducees and others Pharisees, called out in the Sanhedrin, “Brothers, I am a Pharisee, the son of a Pharisee. It is because of my hope in the resurrection of the dead that I am on trial.” 7As soon as he had said this, a dispute broke out between the Pharisees and Sadducees, and the assembly was divided. 8For the Sadducees say that there is neither a resurrection, nor angels, nor spirits, but the Pharisees acknowledge them all. 9A great clamor arose, and some scribes from the party of the Pharisees got up and contended sharply, “We find nothing wrong with this man. What if a spirit or an angel has spoken to him?”…

Please note Paul confirms WHY he is on trial..."the hope in the resurrection of the dead"...NOT for teaching "we can eat pig now...worship on Sundays...or you're going to hell if you don't"...

I mean the Pharisees did say "we find NOTHING wrong with this man"...you really think they'd say that if he was teaching "God is actually THREE people and here's a picture" https://i.pinimg.com/236x/98/32/a7/9832a76ae87bc2bafdfa3db57b46b760--jesus-mother-baby-jesus.jpg or "Sabbath is abolished we can eat pig now"

I doubt it. These zealous joos were ready to tear Paul apart just for his hope in the resurrection Day of the Lord known in the OT...plotted to kill him later in the chapter for it.

So see? Joos still at this time did not believe in spirits reclining on Abraham's bosom even...and Paul was NOT teaching that either...

But that One RESURRECTED...no progressive movement of souls from one state of waiting (getting purged) to another... but from life to death...to life again...at resurrection day when He returns...and the righteous putting on immortality on a new physical body...the risen Messiah has come "that whosoever believeth shall inherit eternal life"...Israel is restored gentiles adopted and grafted into it...ALL made anew...halleluYah

I've probably mentioned 'my lawn' 70 times at the Phora, and NEVER ONCE DEFINED WHAT I MEANT.
Is your neighbor's lawn on the other side of a great chasm which neither of you can cross and yet you can tell them you can't give them a drop of water on their tongue to cool them from the roaring fires?
 
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Nikephoros II Phokas

Administrator
Staff member
An astonishing claim. "All that talk" implies that Jesus talked about it a lot. True, he spoke of hell some seventy times; but unless I remember amiss, he never spoke of Hell as a place of everlasting torment that goes on for ever and aye. That indeed were an absurdity; for only God is eternal.

Where pray tell did Christ endors the view that departed souls go to an everlasting hell (or an everlasting paradise for that matter)?

If he spake so frequently thereof, then of a surety you couldst produce a few quotations from him wherein he teaches such doctrine.

Not that I necessarily deny such a doctrine; I only doubt that Jesus taught it, as I have yet to come across a passage in the Bible in which Jesus spoke of such a thing, unless you are referring to the passages in which the word for unquenchable is mistranslated as 'everlasting' or 'eternal'; yet the same book speaks of the "eternal fire" that was sent as punishment to the people of Sodom and Gomorrah--and adds that said fire was later extinguished. So it is clear that the word for 'eternal' or 'everlasting' as used in the Bible does not mean what many people assume it means.
Matthew 25:41 - Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels.
 

clefty

Phoron
"Our God is a consuming fire." Heb 12:29 and since He ALONE is Immortal I suppose that's an everlasting fire eh?

Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return to God who gave it.

So both good and bad are returned to Him...

but it's the SECOND DEATH we should concentrate on...where the bad are returned to Him and He destroys them...is why BEWARE the One Who destroys both body AND soul...does not keep them burning refining forever and ever.

But it says EVERLASTING as in forever...

Isaiah 34:9–10 (ESV)
9 And the streams of Edom shall be turned into pitch,
and her soil into sulfur;
her land shall become burning pitch.
10 Night and day it shall not be quenched;
its smoke shall go up forever.
From generation to generation it shall lie waste;
none shall pass through it forever

joos are known for dramatic exaggeration...been doing it FOREVER...lol
 

Macrobius

Megaphoron
The Actual Christian (that is, Orthodox) docrine of Hellfire is here:


Not necessarily all that different from clefty's interpretation.

Anyone who thinks that passage from Isaiah is 'metaphorical' has probably never experienced a wildfire in the West.
 

clefty

Phoron
The Actual Christian (that is, Orthodox) docrine of Hellfire is here:


Not necessarily all that different from clefty's interpretation.

Anyone who thinks that passage from Isaiah is 'metaphorical' has probably never experienced a wildfire in the West.

Ummm...so just a dump and run?

Ok...so yeah...nice stuff there but now do I get distracted with it or answer the OP?

Maybe a little distraction?

"What is the cause of this waning of men’s love for God? The answer, certainly, is sin. Sin is the dark cloud which does not permit God’s light to reach our eyes. But sin always did exist. So how did we arrive at the point of not simply ignoring God, but of actually hating Him?"

hmmm...but no.

So it is a dark cloud's fault not permitting me to obey? But I read nothing separates us from His Love...except our own carelessness, pride, rebellion...not a dark cloud blinding us from His Love.

Sin came by way of a man says Paul...not blown in by the wind...

Bible is clear sin is transgression of His Law...it's His LAW which always did exist...not the violation of it...

Sin is also not just "I HATE YOU" but carelessness...in fact the sin sacrifices in the OT were (mainly) for sins UNINTENTIONAL...

And what of those sins done "cuz I LOVE you" you know...the kiss of the adulterating mouth...beautiful images made of gold venerated as "here is he who saved us...how we love him so"

Yeah...nice writings and sentiment but...

But I forged ahead...discovering another god I did not see in my bible...

Death was not inflicted upon us by God 13 We fell into it by our revolt. God is Life and Life is God. We revolted against God, we closed our gates to His life-giving grace. 14 “For as much as he departed from life”, wrote Saint Basil, “by so much did he draw nearer to death. For God is Life, deprivation of life is death”. 15 “God did not create death”, continues Saint Basil, “but we brought it upon ourselves”. “Not at all, however, did He hinder the dissolution… so that He would not make the infirmity immortal in us”. 16 As Saint Irenaeus puts it: “Separation from God is death, separation from light is darkness… and it is not the light which brings upon them the punishment of blindness”. 17

Deuteronomy 32:39
See now that I am He; there is no God besides Me. I bring death and I give life; I wound and I heal, and there is no one who can deliver from My hand.

Gen 3:21And the LORD God made garments of skin for Adam and his wife, and He clothed them. (imagine the Creator killed the innocent to provide for the guilty)

Gen 3:23 Therefore the LORD God banished him from the Garden of Eden to work the ground from which he had been taken...to prevent his eating of the tree of life.

“Death”, says Saint Maximus the Confessor, “is principally the separation from God, from which followed necessarily the death of the body. Life is principally He who said, ‘I am the Life'”.18 And why did death come upon the whole of humanity? Why did those who did not sin with Adam die as did Adam? Here is the reply of Saint Anastasius the Sinaite: “We became the inheritors of the curse in Adam. We were not punished as if we had disobeyed that divine commandment along with Adam; but because Adam became mortal, he transmitted sin to his posterity. We became mortal since we were born from a mortal”.19

1 Timothy 6:16He alone is immortal and dwells in unapproachable light. No one has ever seen Him, nor can anyone see Him. To Him be honor and eternal dominion! Amen.

Adam didn't BECOME mortal he was CREATED mortal...and had to eat of the tree of life to live...as in the Revelations the tree will be restored to those that OBEY...having "put ON immortality"...as "Here are they that keep" the reward given "well DONE good and faithful servant"..."take also from the tree of life, and eat, and live forever."...

“The tree of knowledge itself,” says Theophilus of Antic, “was good, and its fruit was good. For it was not the tree, as some think, that had death in it, but the disobedience which had death in it; for there was nothing else in the fruit but knowledge alone, and knowledge is good when one uses it properly.” 21 The Fathers teach us that the prohibition to taste the tree of knowledge was not absolute but temporary. Adam was a spiritual infant. Not all foods are good for infants. Some foods may even kill them although adults would find them wholesome. The tree of knowledge was planted by God for man. It was good and nourishing. But it was solid food, while Adam was able to digest only milk

Careful Theo...Eve saw that it was good too...deceived herself as you deceive others now...

knowledge of good and evil was in the fruit itself?...wow

..and the Fathers teach the prohibition was only temporary?...I know of other Laws they claim the same of...

Gen 3:22Then the LORD God said, “Behold, the man has become like one of Us, knowing good and evil. And now, lest he reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life, and eat, and live forever...”

"THEN Yah said"...

and exactly WHEN was that?

Only AFTER both Adam and Eve realized they were naked were ashamed and made coverings of leaves (righteousness by works not repentance) and HID from Him...only after they did not take accountability but blamed another...certainly AFTER they saw with their own eyes witnessed first hand the Creator curse ALL He had created (the ground...the animals...the people...but NOT the Sabbath He spared His time)...oh and then they saw Him kill an innocent life...to provide them covering...NOW and only AFTER all they witnessed and experienced they NOW knew good and evil and "have BECOME like ONE of US"...THEREFORE He sent them out...so as NOT to also live forever...

Knowledge is not in the fruit itself...that's idolatry...ascribing power to something that does not have it...

It was the TEST...note the tree of knowledge of good and evil was NEXT to the tree of Life...in eating of the one permitted He led into temptation...seduced by the serpent she deceived herself...

Proverbs 9: 10 "The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom, and knowledge of the Holy One is understanding"...not grown in some fruit...even a forbidden one...

So "wut ya smokin' Theo?"...as others say who also think there's magik knowledge in plants...lol

But in the rest of this article...will I find what Jesus did that Sabbath before First Fruits?

Thanks for sharing...
 

clefty

Phoron
As a kid I was told to imagine a ball made of lead the size of this world...and then to image a dove flying around the moon and back to brush its wing against the surface of this lead ball every 500 years..."well by the time that ball was worn down to a BB...that will only be the first SECOND of hell"

wow

of course we were to also image the flames and lava scalding and burning us without consuming throughout this time...the shrieks and screams of the torment...A Portrait of the Artist Every Child as a Young Man Abused One.

I just shook my head...

How can we build a relationship on that?

I don't think people who say they believe in Hell fires really do believe in Hell fires...cuz if they really really did more strangers would be taken in...more naked would be clothed...and the lines of visitors would be much longer around the hospital and prisons...

Matt 25:38"When did we see You a stranger and take You in, or naked and clothe You? 39 When did we see You sick or in prison and visit You? 40And the King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of Mine, you did for Me.’ 41Then He will say to those on His left, ‘Depart from Me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels."

My wife commented "I wouldn't even WANT a visitor if I knew they were just there because they wanted to save themselves from hell fire"...

I just nodded my head...
 

clefty

Phoron
Again from the article:

This is hell: the negation of love; the return of hate for love; bitterness at seeing innocent joy; to be surrounded by love and to have hate in one’s heart. This is the eternal condition of all the damned.

ummm...no...the dead know nothing...they are dead...destroyed...not having feared the One that destroys both body and soul...

They are all dearly loved. They are all invited to the joyous banquet. They are all living in God’s Kingdom, in the New Earth and the New Heavens. No one expels them. Even if they wanted to go away they could not flee from God’s New Creation, nor hide from God’s tenderly loving omnipresence. Their only alternative would be, perhaps, to go away from their brothers and search for a bitter isolation from them, but they could never depart from God and His love. And what is more terrible is that in this eternal life, in this New Creation, God is everything to His creatures.

...there is a SECOND DEATH...no open invitation to a banquet...no fleeing to isolation in the new heaven and new earth...dead still know nothing

The one who has an ear, let them hear what the Spirit says to the churches. The one who overcomes will not be hurt at all by the second death (Revelation 2:11).

Blessed and holy are those who have part in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with Him for a thousand years (Revelation 20:6).

Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death (Revelation 20:14).

But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars - their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death (Revelation 21:8).

In the new eternal life, God will be everything to His creatures, not only to the good but also to the wicked, not only to those who love Him, but likewise to those who hate Him. But how will those who hate Him endure to have everything from the hands of Him Whom they detest? Oh, what an eternal torment is this, what an eternal fire, what a gnashing of teeth!

Eccl 9:5 For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing. They have no further reward, because the memory of them is forgotten.

Psalm 6:5
For in death there is no remembrance of thee: in the grave who shall give thee thanks?

Isaiah 38:18
For Sheol cannot thank You; Death cannot praise You. Those who descend to the Pit cannot hope for Your faithfulness.



Depart from Me, ye cursed, into the everlasting inner fire of hatred,” 47 saith the Lord, because I was thirsty for your love and you did not give it to Me, I was hungry for your blessedness and you did not offer it to Me, I was imprisoned in My human nature and you did not come to visit Me in My church; you are free to go where your wicked desire wishes, away from Me, in the torturing hatred of your hearts which is foreign to My loving heart which knows no hatred for anyone. Depart freely from love to the everlasting torture of hate, unknown and foreign to Me and to those who are with Me, but prepared by freedom for the devil, from the days I created My free, rational creatures. But wherever you go in the darkness of your hating hearts, My love will follow you like a river of fire, because no matter what your heart has chosen, you are and you will eternally continue to be, My children.

How nice...but

Hebrews 10:26 If we deliberately go on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no further sacrifice for sins remains, 27 but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume all adversaries. 28 Anyone who rejected the law of Moses died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses 29 How much more severely do you think one deserves to be punished who has trampled on the Son of God, profaned the blood of the covenant that sanctified him, and insulted the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know Him who said, “Vengeance is Mine; I will repay,” and again, “The Lord will judge His people.”36 You need to persevere, so that after you have done the will of God, you will receive what He has promised. ...37 For, “In just a little while, He who is coming will come and will not delay. 38 But My righteous one will live by faith; and if he shrinks back, I will take no pleasure in him. 39 But we are not of those who shrink back and are destroyed, but of those who have faith and preserve their souls.

Please note:

it's a raging fire that will consume...that is destroy...they are not continually tortured by their own hatred...

adversaries are NOT called "My children"...He takes NO PLEASURE following them around with a river of love...as those that shrink back are DESTROYED...

Matt 25:46"And they will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.” an eternal punishMENT with an ending...not an eternal punishING...on going...

Daniel 12:2
And many who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake, some to everlasting life, but others to shame and everlasting contempt. (and abhorrence done by the living of them not that they abhor themselves)

Is WHY we fear One Who can destroy both body and soul...after judging what our hearts have chosen...that is, is the heart circumcised or uncircumcised? one unto eternal life the other to oblivion...to return to where they were PRIOR their parents conceiving them...

John 10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish"... but some will not be given eternal life but will perish ἀπόλωνται [43 verses](3rd pl aor subj mid) "They shall... perish"is apollymi, which means "to demolish," "to lay waste," "to lose" things, "to perish," "to die," "to cease to exist," and "to be undone."

...so sadly...NO forever hating hearts...and they will NOT have rivers of fire hot love following them wherever they go...

but yes again...thanks for sharing...

hope to hear back from you on this...
 
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